SEPTA (ex-PRR) MP-54s

[scotty269]

In twenty or thirty years, somebody is going to make a topic on a forum similar to this, asking where to find a Silverliner II. Then, there will be a response saying to go look around Wayne Junction, next to the nearly completely rusted Blueliner.

[newkirk]

I cannot think of any possible MP-54 survivors other than those mentioned above. Should someone else have more up-to-date information, feel free to add it here!

Franklin Gowen,

There are three ex-Pennsy MP-54s on the Delaware and Ulster Railride tourist railorad at Arkville NY. The coaches are ex-PRR 441,444,447. They are demotored and are currently used on their diesel hauled trains.

[JeffK]

The first MP 54's were rebuilds of the PRR's steam hauled P-54 suburban coaches. However, the MP 54's were built up through the early 1930's. so not all of the units date back to 1915. The entire MP 54 fleet included full baggage cars, combination baggage and passenger cars and even RPO Cars, in addition to the straight coaches. There were also 43 unpowered trailers ( these were not simply unconverted P-54 coaches, as they were control trailers which could have been placed at the head end of a train, but which were usually in the middle). They were paired with powered coaches( semi-permanently coupled) which had slightly more powerful traction motors to allow them to pull the trailers. The end of the powered coaches to which the trailer was coupled did not have the owl eyed windows which were the hallmark of the MP 54's appearance ( those ends did not have .any windows). At its peak, PRR's MP 54 Fleet numbered almost 500 units with over 300 straight coaches.

A few of the Blueliners had a small section at one end that was separated from the rest of the car by glass panels. My guess is that it was left over from the days of smoking and non-smoking sections. Around a half-dozen of the cars were also retrofitted with rudimentary air-conditioning that made them semi-tolerable on hot days, but half the time they were better off with the windows open.

The MP 54s were in such bad shape towards the end that I really hated it when a consist pulled up. Aside from the square-wheel ride, the traction motors really screamed when providing any decent acceleration. Mostly the operators didn't even try to match the SL's uptake so we'd get behind schedule and lose our slot in the rush-hour dance at 30th St. It would sometimes be a 10 or 15 minute wait until the dispatcher could slip us in.

[the sarge]

This is where some of the last SEPTA MP's went http://www.njerhs.org/equipment/index.html

from the website, appears at least one still has SEPTA colors

[walt]

The MP 54s were in such bad shape towards the end that I really hated it when a consist pulled up. Aside from the square-wheel ride, the traction motors really screamed when providing any decent acceleration. Mostly the operators didn't even try to match the SL's uptake so we'd get behind schedule and lose our slot in the rush-hour dance at 30th St. It would sometimes be a 10 or 15 minute wait until the dispatcher could slip us in.

One thing the MP 54s were not was fast. In their best days, their effective top speed was only 50 MPH, and they tended to really "rock and roll" as they approached that speed. They were probably a marked improvement over the steam hauled trains which they replaced, but that was in 1915. By the 1950's, they had become totally inadequate.

[cpontani]

Doesn't anybody here have a Septa calendar? Last month was almost the same exact shot, but it was at Westtown. It's the same train with 441 on the lead. Date? April 29, 1979.

I think I know a pair in Pensy colors. http://www.frontstreetstation.com/banquet.shtml Went to a wedding there a few years ago. The two cars are on either side of the banquet hall. If only I got married in rural Pennsylvania...

[Nasadowsk]

Once above 30mph, power could not be reapplied on the MP-54s after selecting 'off' on the controller, without risking TM damage (flashover). At least on the early 7 and 9 switch Westinghouse units. I hear some of the later ones were a bit better (and more bizzare)

50mph? I doubt they ever got that fast between stations. From what I've heard, they tended to not want to run at those speeds very long.

The LIRR versions weren't much better - I think they officially had a top speed of 60, though the LIRR tended to mix power/trailer cars in trains.

They were very heavy units with not much power, and worse braking. The Silverliner I (Pioneer III) units were 2X as fast, stopped 2X faster, could hit over 80 easily, held more riders, and had air conditioning. Yet they used no more power than the '54s.

My guess is the '54s held on so long because nobody (certainly not the PRR) wanted to spend the money to replace them until it was painfully obvious they needed to go. Though railfans might miss them (I'd love to have been on one, but born too late:( ), the daily riders likely DIDN'T.

[amtrakhogger]

I know a fellow engineer who first worked for the Penn Central and
used to work the Wilmington locals when they still used MP54's. One
if his dislikes was when the car inspectors replaced all the brake shoes
the night before. The cast iron brake shoes did not work very well until they were broken in which meant many a time blowing Claymont station
with a platform full of passengers in the morning!

[westernfalls]

One thing the MP 54s were not was fast. In their best days, their effective top speed was only 50 MPH

The MP54's permissable top speed was 65 and they could scream alot faster downhill. Taking a look at a 1962 schedule, train 3810 was carded for 25 minutes from New Brunswick to Newark, 22.7 miles. That's more than 54 mph including accelleration, braking, the curves at Elizabeth and the rush hour station stop at Newark.

[walt]

Once above 30mph, power could not be reapplied on the MP-54s after selecting 'off' on the controller, without risking TM damage (flashover). At least on the early 7 and 9 switch Westinghouse units. I hear some of the later ones were a bit better (and more bizzare)

50mph? I doubt they ever got that fast between stations. From what I've heard, they tended to not want to run at those speeds very long.

They didn't ( get up to 50 MPH between stations) Sometimes the PRR would use a consist of 54's as a second section on one of the Phila-NY trains, or they'd be pressed into mainline service on "special movement"days-- like the Army-Navy game. PRR found during these kinds of uses, however that the traction motors tended to burn out with sustained 50 MPH running-- so the top speed may have been 50 or even 60 MPH, but their effective top speed was much slower.
I rode the cars frequently in the 1950's and 1960's, and actually didn't dislike them. They are the trains I saw, and rode on the most. With the traction motor noises, the smell of ozone which surrounded them, all enhanced by the fact that you had to ride with the windows open during the spring and summer, they were much more interesting than their successors---- a railfan's dream. Howver, for the general riding public, they were a nighmare.

[JeffK]

With the traction motor noises, the smell of ozone which surrounded them, all enhanced by the fact that you had to ride with the windows open during the spring and summer, they were much more interesting than their successors---- a railfan's dream. However, for the general riding public, they were a nightmare.

I do remember that my feelings about the RRWs (Rolling Red Wonders) tended to be a lot different on weekends versus when I was headed to work in a suit and tie ;=)

[Tadman]

How did those cars stay cool when it was hot and raining at the same time? Sounds like a recipe for a very uncomfortable ride.

[walt]

How did those cars stay cool when it was hot and raining at the same time? Sounds like a recipe for a very uncomfortable ride.

You left the windows open but sat near the aisle!--------But remember, until the early 1960's, no public transportation vehicles were air conditioned, except for the best intercity trains, so the average commuter was used to wrestling with open windows during summer rain storms in their commuter or transit vehicles. ( You had the same problems on PCC streetcars)

[SubwayTim]

While on the subject of MP-54s, I rode them just a few times when I was a kid in the early and mid 1970s, once or twice outbound from Suburban Station to Morton (on the now R3), and once also outbound from Suburban to Marcus Hook (R2). There were a couple of things I remember soundwise about the MP-54s. One is the "buzz-buzz" the conductor signals the engineer with just before the train departs a station. The one on the 54s sounded like a high-pitch whistle instead of the "buzz-buzz" we hear on the Silverliners. The horn also sounded different. I remember many times when I was a kid going to my grandparents' house in Morton and hearing the trains blowing their horns at the grade crossings. I could always tell by the sound of the horn if it was a Silverliner or MP-54 (when I was real little, my mom and I always referred to them as "The Silver Choo-Choo" and "The Red Choo-Choo" ).

[jonnhrr]

I remember seeing the 54's on the R3 in the late 70's when we moved to Delaware County, then they disappeared and the Blueliners started taking over to supplement the SL's until the push pull trains arrived years later.

Actually the Blues were my favorite to ride, but I do remember one trip on the R3, the 5:15 PM express to Secane which usually used the 54's, I guess as they didn't have to make as many stops they could more or less keep the schedule.

Jon