NCS to Broad Street Station ("Newark Light Rail")

[lensovet]

I agree. Sadly, message board posts are not considered such. Ah well.

So, essentially, Light Rail ops is a separate entity in the NJT offices, and acts as the liaison for the HBLR and RiverLine contracted services, while also directly managing NLR, which is staffed with operators brought over from the Bus Ops division. At least that's what I think you're saying.

More or less, yeah. Light Rail ops is not it's own entity though like bus and rail ops. Light Rail ops falls under the auspices of the Capital Planning and Programs department. Also, the NLR operators aren't brought over from bus ops, they are bus operators on the roster. They get to bid on the light rail jobs based on seniority for an extra stipend. But you could have an individual who operates the NLR one day and then gets bumped to a bus route a day or so later.

wow that seems super weird. i mean, how similar are those jobs, really?

[SightUnseen]

I ran into in this site when I did a google search for Newark light rail expansion. Though this post might go unnoticed (I as see that that last time anyone posted on this subject was just a little over 2 years ago), I wanted to say that it's amazing to see what people can do when they put there heads together.
First off I want to preface that even after reading every post, I'm not as well versed as many of you are on this subject so please forgive my ignorance. As the HBLR has expanded and continues to expand, I feel that the Newark Light Rail seems to be somewhat be neglected and I feel that NJ Transit should seriously start to look in to expanding the system.
I wholeheartedly agree that using existing (currently underused) ROW is the best option to expand the current system, extending out from Grove St. to Watsessing Ave, west into Montlcair, and north into Clifton/Paterson.
I saw there were some varied opinions on how make that Montclair Extension. jamesrileyjr suggested a transfer at where the old Orange and Boonton lines meet, while oknazevad made a great point about avoiding a transfer to get downtown. My suggestion would be to create an interchange where the lines meet by Manchester Pl and Highland Ave. In the short term the interchange would allow for an extension to Montclair (splitting off from Branch Brook Park station as oknazevad suggested) and and reintroduce service. In the long term, the interchange would also be the foundation for and east-west cross county connector that could reach Hoboken and reestablish service to Arlington and Kearny if desired.
Expanding out to Clifton and Paterson might be more difficult. While you have the infrastructure to start at Passaic St. but it doesn't connect to anything. Making an extension from either Broad St., Riverfront Stadium, or Atlantic St. might be a good place to start.
Outside of making expanding the system out to Montlcair and Clifton/Paterson, I think it's also important to expand that system out other parts of the city as. Only the North and Central Wards seem to benefiting from the current system. The East , West and South Wards seem be neglected.

[korbermeister]

I ran into in this site when I did a google search for Newark light rail expansion. Though this post might go unnoticed (I as see that that last time anyone posted on this subject was just a little over 2 years ago), I wanted to say that it's amazing to see what people can do when they put there heads together.
First off I want to preface that even after reading every post, I'm not as well versed as many of you are on this subject so please forgive my ignorance. As the HBLR has expanded and continues to expand, I feel that the Newark Light Rail seems to be somewhat be neglected and I feel that NJ Transit should seriously start to look in to expanding the system.... ...Outside of making expanding the system out to Montlcair and Clifton/Paterson, I think it's also important to expand that system out other parts of the city as. Only the North and Central Wards seem to benefiting from the current system. The East , West and South Wards seem be neglected.

Newark has very high bus ridership totals so i don't think that they woud want to disrupt them so readily; and montclair JUST approved weekend heavy rail service (with restrictions) through their town so i don't see how they'd be happy to have more rails running through there. Therefore i'd like NJT to either come up with a plan (with the PA of course!) to extend the PATH to the monorail station OOOORRRR work with RU, New Brunswick, M'sex county to implement better transit options that would benefit Rutgers, & surrounding area

[SightUnseen]

Newark has very high bus ridership totals so i don't think that they woud want to disrupt them so readily; and montclair JUST approved weekend heavy rail service (with restrictions) through their town so i don't see how they'd be happy to have more rails running through there. Therefore i'd like NJT to either come up with a plan (with the PA of course!) to extend the PATH to the monorail station OOOORRRR work with RU, New Brunswick, M'sex county to implement better transit options that would benefit Rutgers, & surrounding area

As I prefaced before, I'm not as versed at this like some on this board about transportation matters and essentially all I'm doing is speculating and offering some suggestions. I understand and know that Newark has high bus ridership, but the buses shouldn't be the only local option for people to get around town. The purpose of the Montclair-Boonton Line and other heavy commuter rails is essentially to ferry folks to larger metropolitan areas (in this case being NYC), but isn't really an option/alternative for local travel, because of things like weekend restrictions. There has to be other local alternatives/options for the public. In my opinion the NLR is one of the those options.
Newark is going through a renewal. It's still New Jersey's largest city and growing. It's attracted companies like Panasonic and organizations like the NFL’s Alumni Association to make their offices in the city and I'm sure many others will in the future. So as the population grows and jobs grow at some point NJT is going have to think about expanding the current NRL system to meet the growing needs of the city and the surrounding communities. Montclair as well as other communities might be more amiable to light rail service a it creates another local option/alternative for mass transit in to and out of the town besides buses and heavy rail. I'm not suggesting running light rail service through the entire town of Montclair, but if know the history behind the Montclair-Boonton Line you'd know that before the Montclair Connection back in 2002 there were two separate lines in Montclair. The old Boonton Line which ran out to Hoboken now ends where the connection was made near Bay St. in Montclair. What other posters have suggested (and I agree with) is using the current ROW on the old Boonton line and the old Orange branch to extend NRL to that point where the old line ends in Montclair.
I wholeheartedly agree that the PA should extend the PATH out to Air train terminal at airport. It only makes sense they are the governing authority (no pun intended). But I also feel NJT to do so as well. It was in the original plans of the NERL (Newark-Elizabeth Rail Link) to extend the NLR to the airport. Currently only buses go the airport directly and only two NJT commuter trains pass through the Airport station. Again the NLR and PATH would create options/alternatives for travelers.

I can't speak much to what you suggested about the creating a system in New Brunswick, but I agree with you.

[sickskillz]

I've been a long time lurker of this thread, and I am 100% for an extension of Newark Light Rail to nearby towns (I currently reside in Kearny). I was actually taking a look at a possible connection of Newark Light Rail and the HBLR. It seems as if Newark Light Rail was ever extended into Kearny at the old Arlington station, the old Boonton line continues down towards Hoboken near the Croxton yard, which is very close to the old abandoned Bergen arches.

It looks like it would technically be possibly (although I'm not sure how feasible it would be, due to budgeting and figuring a way to bypass the mess of tracks near croxton yard) to link the old Boonton line to the Bergen arches. This would allow a light rail system to be able to travel from Newark through the Boonton line/Bergen arches and connect with the now (end of the line) HBLR at the NJ Transit Hoboken Terminal.

I would think this would be very possible to see within the next few decades to link both light rail systems and create a vast network for light rail service where it is not necessary to have heavy rail transit or where heavy rail transit most likely will be overloaded with passengers.

Oh how I wish ideas and dreams were easier to become a reality in the real world, but there's always hope when people push towards a common goal such as this one.

[necrails]

One would hope NJT looks to preserve existing ROW and expand the system up towards Nutley. The west side tracks, if no new customers are found, will present an opportunity to link Belville, Nutley and Clifton. A bit of creative engineering will get the line from Broad Street over to the river and on it's way. The same can be said for crossing the river into Kearny. Newark is a transit hub with Penn Station serving transit, Amtrak as well as regional and local buses. LR would further serve this hub. One day when the economy stabalizes perhaps this will come to pass.

As far as inking HBR and NLR, probably not in our lifetime. Maybe Englewood, maybe Staten Island, but crossing the Meadowlands would be a distant third on my list.

[michaelk]

I've often crossed the turnpike extension's Newark Bay bridge and looked down and the old rail bridge down along side it on the north- I think it was LV? Only relatively recently they pulled down the cat. And the other end of the bridge butts right up to the HBLR (geographically if not physically- they built the HBLR tracks a "hump" right by turnpike 14A to grade separate the LR from the HR that that connects to the tracks over the bridge ). If they ever extended NLR to the airport or Elizabeth they could just hop along those tracks to connect the 2 systems. I think I've read that conrail only uses one of the 2 tracks on the bridge at the present? If you look at google maps it looks like the ROW in Bayonne previously had 3 (or more) tracks instead of the present 2 so there's some room to add alongside the conrail ROW for at least part of the ride.

Just imagining- I'm sure there's a million other priorities. But it just looks so "simple" driving by in the car.

[Patrick Boylan]

I don't know too much about the fallen flags in north Jersey, but I don't think the Lehigh Valley had electric trains. If anything had catenary that they recently pulled down wouldn't it probably be an ex Pennsylvania Railroad freight line?

[Ken W2KB]

I've often crossed the turnpike extension's Newark Bay bridge and looked down and the old rail bridge down along side it on the north- I think it was LV? Only relatively recently they pulled down the cat. And the other end of the bridge butts right up to the HBLR (geographically if not physically- they built the HBLR tracks a "hump" right by turnpike 14A to grade separate the LR from the HR that that connects to the tracks over the bridge ). If they ever extended NLR to the airport or Elizabeth they could just hop along those tracks to connect the 2 systems. I think I've read that conrail only uses one of the 2 tracks on the bridge at the present? If you look at google maps it looks like the ROW in Bayonne previously had 3 (or more) tracks instead of the present 2 so there's some room to add alongside the conrail ROW for at least part of the ride.

Just imagining- I'm sure there's a million other priorities. But it just looks so "simple" driving by in the car.

The Upper Bay Drawbridge next to the Turnpike was jointly used and owned by the Pennsylvania and the Lehigh Valley. The extra space in Bayonne of which you speak was occupied by several (5 or 6) yard tracks on the south side diverging from the main tracks just east of the bridge, and did not have wire over it. The PRR wire continued east from the bridge over the two main tracks just into the west end of the Greenville hump yard where electric motors were changed, diesels handled the yard duties; the LV curved to the north parallel with the CNJ main line.

[RWERN]

I've often crossed the turnpike extension's Newark Bay bridge and looked down and the old rail bridge down along side it on the north- I think it was LV? Only relatively recently they pulled down the cat. And the other end of the bridge butts right up to the HBLR (geographically if not physically- they built the HBLR tracks a "hump" right by turnpike 14A to grade separate the LR from the HR that that connects to the tracks over the bridge ). If they ever extended NLR to the airport or Elizabeth they could just hop along those tracks to connect the 2 systems. I think I've read that conrail only uses one of the 2 tracks on the bridge at the present? If you look at google maps it looks like the ROW in Bayonne previously had 3 (or more) tracks instead of the present 2 so there's some room to add alongside the conrail ROW for at least part of the ride.

Just imagining- I'm sure there's a million other priorities. But it just looks so "simple" driving by in the car.

I would suggest that some partial reuse of the CNJ's Newark & New York ROW be utilized. As it is, the West Side Ave. spur of the HBLR uses this and there are plans to extend to the area near NJ 440. It would be a fairly logical continuation (at least I think so) to rebuild bridges to get across the Passaic and Hackensack and on to Newark Penn to link to the NLR as well as down to link with the proposed Union County line near Jersey Gardens. It keeps LRT and freight separate, and provides a valuable new service pattern. Let the PATH train worry getting to the airport, honestly.

[michaelk]

I've often crossed the turnpike extension's Newark Bay bridge and looked down and the old rail bridge down along side it on the north- I think it was LV? Only relatively recently they pulled down the cat. And the other end of the bridge butts right up to the HBLR (geographically if not physically- they built the HBLR tracks a "hump" right by turnpike 14A to grade separate the LR from the HR that that connects to the tracks over the bridge ). If they ever extended NLR to the airport or Elizabeth they could just hop along those tracks to connect the 2 systems. I think I've read that conrail only uses one of the 2 tracks on the bridge at the present? If you look at google maps it looks like the ROW in Bayonne previously had 3 (or more) tracks instead of the present 2 so there's some room to add alongside the conrail ROW for at least part of the ride.

Just imagining- I'm sure there's a million other priorities. But it just looks so "simple" driving by in the car.

I would suggest that some partial reuse of the CNJ's Newark & New York ROW be utilized. As it is, the West Side Ave. spur of the HBLR uses this and there are plans to extend to the area near NJ 440. It would be a fairly logical continuation (at least I think so) to rebuild bridges to get across the Passaic and Hackensack and on to Newark Penn to link to the NLR as well as down to link with the proposed Union County line near Jersey Gardens. It keeps LRT and freight separate, and provides a valuable new service pattern. Let the PATH train worry getting to the airport, honestly.

Honestly you (or pretty much anyone- lol) would know better than I. But isn't it a federal project (literally with the contamination in the bay...) to build new bridges? I just figured it seems a shame to waste the existing bridge if in fact it isn't currently used except for one track. (although isn't there a proposed tunnel to brooklyn that maybe would need to use that existing newark bay bridge- so maybe it's a moot point...

I'd agree to the Path at the airport would make more sense. Someone who would be in a position to know once told me MANY years before the monorail was built that the terminal buildings had the slot/row/clearances engineered into them for PATH. I was a kid so I'm not certain I understood correctly but I'm pretty sure he told me they were built to accept PATH- he may have been using an example and i didn't understand but in my mind he told me the PA built the new terminals with the intent to have a PATH stop in each terminal. So in my head all along I just assumed they would eventually extend the Path into the terminals.

[SightUnseen]

I would suggest that some partial reuse of the CNJ's Newark & New York ROW be utilized. As it is, the West Side Ave. spur of the HBLR uses this and there are plans to extend to the area near NJ 440. It would be a fairly logical continuation (at least I think so) to rebuild bridges to get across the Passaic and Hackensack and on to Newark Penn to link to the NLR as well as down to link with the proposed Union County line near Jersey Gardens. It keeps LRT and freight separate, and provides a valuable new service pattern. Let the PATH train worry getting to the airport, honestly.

Nice idea. I disagree somewhat about the PATH. Why wait for someone else to do something that we could for ourselves? The Port Authority didn't seem to have a problem before, and it's obviously not at the top of their list now. So why not do it?

[Ken W2KB]

I've often crossed the turnpike extension's Newark Bay bridge and looked down and the old rail bridge down along side it on the north- I think it was LV? Only relatively recently they pulled down the cat. And the other end of the bridge butts right up to the HBLR (geographically if not physically- they built the HBLR tracks a "hump" right by turnpike 14A to grade separate the LR from the HR that that connects to the tracks over the bridge ). If they ever extended NLR to the airport or Elizabeth they could just hop along those tracks to connect the 2 systems. I think I've read that conrail only uses one of the 2 tracks on the bridge at the present? If you look at google maps it looks like the ROW in Bayonne previously had 3 (or more) tracks instead of the present 2 so there's some room to add alongside the conrail ROW for at least part of the ride.

Just imagining- I'm sure there's a million other priorities. But it just looks so "simple" driving by in the car.

I would suggest that some partial reuse of the CNJ's Newark & New York ROW be utilized. As it is, the West Side Ave. spur of the HBLR uses this and there are plans to extend to the area near NJ 440. It would be a fairly logical continuation (at least I think so) to rebuild bridges to get across the Passaic and Hackensack and on to Newark Penn to link to the NLR as well as down to link with the proposed Union County line near Jersey Gardens. It keeps LRT and freight separate, and provides a valuable new service pattern. Let the PATH train worry getting to the airport, honestly.

Once into Newark the right of way is gone and built-over. Street running would involve considerable delays to get to Newark Penn.

[amtrakowitz]

I'd describe the ROW of the Newark and New York as "torn down" in a great many places. Kinda sad to see abutments for bridges along Doremus Avenue that lead into thin air on either side of the road. Same goes for the former Kearny River Terminal station. If the ROW were intact, the best place for that to go were it to be light rail would be the Prudential Center, into its old terminus. (Of course, the "hindsight 20/20" view would be that the passenger rail would still have been viable if it had been extended into Irvington, and/or possibly further westward onto the Rahway Valley Railroad...but that's a bit off-topic.)

[RWERN]

I would suggest that some partial reuse of the CNJ's Newark & New York ROW be utilized. As it is, the West Side Ave. spur of the HBLR uses this and there are plans to extend to the area near NJ 440. It would be a fairly logical continuation (at least I think so) to rebuild bridges to get across the Passaic and Hackensack and on to Newark Penn to link to the NLR as well as down to link with the proposed Union County line near Jersey Gardens. It keeps LRT and freight separate, and provides a valuable new service pattern. Let the PATH train worry getting to the airport, honestly.

Once into Newark the right of way is gone and built-over. Street running would involve considerable delays to get to Newark Penn.

Of course it would, and I had already considered that. I withheld this bit because I'm sure I will be lambasted for it, but my plan actually doesn't involve using the part of the ROW that was built over. Additionally, it doesn't involve street running either. Basically, from the West Side Ave. Station to the edge of the Ironbound neighborhood (near the end of Market Street), use the existing ROW (if you wanted a perfectly straight run, you'd have to negotiate something with the three businesses that have encroached in between these points: Acrilex and Hudson Toyota near NJ 440 and Natural Flavors on Doremus Ave.) Once at the edge of Ironbound, make a curve and proceed to tunnel under Market Street (the last few hundred feet under Raymond Blvd.) and connect to the track loop at the existing Newark Subway station, where abandoned platforms could be utilized, direct connections could be made, or through service allowed. I refrain from calling the plan "simple", though it is in my opinion straightforward enough. Tunneling is very often a costly and complicated task, though any rail project is that way to start. The tunnel would be about a mile long of a 4.2 mile route (including the distance from West Side Ave. to NJ 440 therein). I believe it would be a decent performer despite the cost. Although the NWK-WTC PATH and the NJT 1 bus serve the Newark-Jersey City market, I think the intermediate areas served and the likely fast trip times make this option a winner, especially if a connection to Newark meant a new service pattern for the light rail so that all routes over the HBLR terminate at Hoboken Terminal since NWK-HOB in a single ride would be something that neither buses nor PATH accomplish (NJT limited RVL and NJCL service don't cut it as these are very infrequent and slow). But these are all just musing and I doubt they'd come to be in my lifetime (despite my youth) if ever.