Pope Service on ACL and NEC (with Connecting Pope Service)

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone:

I read the service plan released by NJT and NJDOT and will add my comments:

1-The major road closures in Camden: Admiral Wilson Boulevard from Airport Circle and I-676 from the Whitman
Bridge up to and including the Ben Franklin bridge is quite significant affecting access to the Camden Waterfront
along with the River Line ending all trains at Broadway-WRTC in which riders can transfer to PATCO (if one has a
Freedom Card) or endure a miles-long walk over the BFB - and I noted that parking in downtown Camden will be
restricted to 1100 or thereabouts buses only...Does anyone rationally think that attendees will walk for the miles
and time periods that NJDOT forecasts especially as mentioned those in no physical condition to do so?

2-Scheduling the Atlantic City Line to serve just AC is not a good move - what this does is make Lindenwold and
Woodcrest PATCO stations extreme "magnet" stations for a majority of South Jersey - there should be at least one
intermediate stop on the route - my choice is Hammonton because of its central location on the AC Line route...

3-I agree with the River Line travel restrictions because of its limited service capacity and without them passengers
transferring at Trenton would literally overwhelm this route and the service could very well collapse especially in the
absence of connecting SEPTA Trenton Line trains - and added South Jersey bus service would be subject to traffic
problems that trains could bypass...

4-I noticed the announced extra Amtrak service from both NYP and WAS - this is a good move by Amtrak noting
the high demand for service on the Papal Visit weekend to PHL - I thought that NJT would run these extras from
NYP instead - this helps with high demand between NYP and PHL - and I figured that extra trains from BAL and
WAS would be part of the Amtrak NEC Papal Visit service plan...

As we all know the Papal Visit is going to be a interesting time for anyone involved in getting those attending
to and from Philadelphia safely and hopefully the service changes needed can help but as we also know there
will be inconveniences for many no matter what is done making this planning a huge task...

MACTRAXX

[sammy2009]

Is there any rail service plans for New York's Pope Visit because it is my understanding he will be there the first two days before he comes to Philly...I found that a bit strange. I haven't heard any news or plans about NY service. Philly seems to be the sole magnet.

[R3 Passenger]

MACTRAXX, I'm going to add my own thoughts to what you said:

1. Agreed. Folks will not want to walk across the Ben Franklin Bridge (BFB), but the Walter Rand Transportation Center (WRTC) is going to be a major bottleneck with ALL New Jersey service terminating there (with the exception of the ACL and PATCO). PATCO service capacity is finite. I have a feeling that a lot of people will be stuck in Camden as a result. Parking is going to be a battle royale.

2. ACL service should have been reduced to 30 minute headways instead of 60 minutes. AC has many hotels that could be used by people going to the WMOF. In addition, if people book hotels in AC and fly into ACY, it will take some pressure off of PHL and Philadelphia Metropolitan Area (PMA) hotels. Granted that the religious pilgrims who go to see the Pope are not exactly the clientele that the casinos attract or desire, it would be revenue for them and they should promote and embrace it. Secondly, I agree that there should be another intermediate stop along the ACL but disagree that it should be Hammonton. There isn't much parking there, plus security would need to set up a place to screen folks since 30th Street is within the West Philly Security Zone. The only intermediate stop that should be set on the ACL is Pennsauken Transfer. Making that stop would provide some relief to WRTC by siphoning away some RiverLine passengers and packing AC trains to full capacity. It makes sense. As for other intermediate stations, they aren't designed for the crowds that this event is apparently going to pull.

3. RiverLine travel restrictions are good. However, I don't agree with terminating service at WRTC. If anything, RiverLine should bypass WRTC and instead terminate farther south at the Entertainment Center or Aquarium. Why? Maximize use of the RiverLink Ferry! WRTC will already have massive crowds from buses trying to get onto PATCO or crossing the BFB by foot.

4. I am surprised that NJT is not extending some NEC trains to 30th Street LL. NJT has developed its Newark Division roster for the purpose of getting as many people as possible to a place on as few trains as possible. NJT should utilize that specialty. In addition, didn't SEPTA loan buses to NJT in the aftermath of Sandy? I think this is good a time as any to help SEPTA and Philadelphia. In addition, it would look good for NJT.

This whole thing is inconvenient for the area. Our infrastructure is not designed for this kind of traffic and restrictions.

[philipmartin]

Tt

Is there any rail service plans for New York's Pope Visit because it is my understanding he will be tthere the first two days before he comes to Philly...I found that a bit strange. I haven't heard any news or plans about NY service. Philly seems to be the sole magnet.

What I heard on the radio news broadcast is that Cardinal Dolan says that the Pope will probably be in the "Rotten Apple" one day. (The cardinal didn't call his diocese the "rotten apple.) the pope will address the UN. There will be world leaders from all over at the UN too. And there will be two (football?) games in Jersey too.
I think that Transit will be putting on extra trains.

[nick11a]

Very interesting stuff. I'm surprised by some of the moves and decisions, but all things considered, it's probably all for the best.

[MACTRAXX]

MACTRAXX, I'm going to add my own thoughts to what you said:

1. Agreed. Folks will not want to walk across the Ben Franklin Bridge (BFB), but the Walter Rand Transportation Center (WRTC) is going to be a major bottleneck with ALL New Jersey service terminating there (with the exception of the ACL and PATCO). PATCO service capacity is finite. I have a feeling that a lot of people will be stuck in Camden as a result. Parking is going to be a battle royale.

2. ACL service should have been reduced to 30 minute headways instead of 60 minutes. AC has many hotels that could be used by people going to the WMOF. In addition, if people book hotels in AC and fly into ACY, it will take some pressure off of PHL and Philadelphia Metropolitan Area (PMA) hotels. Granted that the religious pilgrims who go to see the Pope are not exactly the clientele that the casinos attract or desire, it would be revenue for them and they should promote and embrace it. Secondly, I agree that there should be another intermediate stop along the ACL but disagree that it should be Hammonton. There isn't much parking there, plus security would need to set up a place to screen folks since 30th Street is within the West Philly Security Zone. The only intermediate stop that should be set on the ACL is Pennsauken Transfer. Making that stop would provide some relief to WRTC by siphoning away some RiverLine passengers and packing AC trains to full capacity. It makes sense. As for other intermediate stations, they aren't designed for the crowds that this event is apparently going to pull.

3. RiverLine travel restrictions are good. However, I don't agree with terminating service at WRTC. If anything, RiverLine should bypass WRTC and instead terminate farther south at the Entertainment Center or Aquarium. Why? Maximize use of the RiverLink Ferry! WRTC will already have massive crowds from buses trying to get onto PATCO or crossing the BFB by foot.

4. I am surprised that NJT is not extending some NEC trains to 30th Street LL. NJT has developed its Newark Division roster for the purpose of getting as many people as possible to a place on as few trains as possible. NJT should utilize that specialty. In addition, didn't SEPTA loan buses to NJT in the aftermath of Sandy? I think this is good a time as any to help SEPTA and Philadelphia. In addition, it would look good for NJT.

This whole thing is inconvenient for the area. Our infrastructure is not designed for this kind of traffic and restrictions.

R3 - My reply thoughts are:

1-The River Line should operate to its normal Camden Waterfront terminal provided that there will be RiverLink
ferries operating that weekend - and ending service at WRTC is only adding to the access problems there to get
on PATCO trains to 9/10 Locust - but having RL trains bypassing WRTC is again not the answer here - they need
to access both stations to better serve downtown Camden.

2-Good point about Atlantic City which is a good source of available hotel rooms even though religious pilgrims
are not the "gambling types" that the casinos wish to attract...I was only thinking of the AC Line serving the NJ
southern Shore communities in Atlantic and Cape May counties...I chose Hammonton as an intermediate stop
because of its central location between Lindenwold and Absecon to try and direct some traffic there instead of
Lindenwold and Woodcrest in that order which will serve a large area of South Jersey...Pennsauken would have
been a way to divert some RL riders onto the ACL into 30th Street freeing up a little capacity(?) on the RL...

3-Mentioned in #1 above...

4-Agreed...NJT should have run extra or special trains through to Philadelphia 30th Street LL for the Papal Visit
weekend - instead Amtrak is running extra NEC trains using commuter equipment which will probably be 10-12
car trains of A3 MU cars similar to what they lease on the Thanksgiving holiday but I would not be surprised if
the ML cars are used instead in which the extra trains from Baltimore and Washington could have also if they
are leased from MARC instead of the usual single level fleet...It remains to be seen what kind of routing plan
SEPTA puts together for their operating bus routes for the Papal Visit weekend and if needed should get extra
buses from NJT or other authorities similar to how Atlanta leased SEPTA buses for the 1996 Olympic Games.
As we now know SEPTA is "going it alone" where it comes to what RRD trains they will be operating - even if
perhaps outside rail equipment was available for lease for the Papal Visit weekend...

MACTRAXX

[MACTRAXX]

Tt

Is there any rail service plans for New York's Pope Visit because it is my understanding he will be tthere the first two days before he comes to Philly...I found that a bit strange. I haven't heard any news or plans about NY service. Philly seems to be the sole magnet.

What I heard on the radio news broadcast is that Cardinal Dolan says that the Pope will probably be in the "Rotten Apple" one day. (The cardinal didn't call his diocese the "rotten apple.) the pope will address the UN. There will be world leaders from all over at the UN too. And there will be two (football?) games in Jersey too.
I think that Transit will be putting on extra trains.

PM and Everyone:

I have noticed myself that the clear emphasis is to the Philadelphia Papal Visit weekend events over the NYC
visit on Thursday and Friday September 24-25th and to me the largest single NYC event - the Papal Mass at
Madison Square Garden at 6:00 PM on that Friday is the one event that will affect anyone using Penn Station
on that day - a "getaway" Friday with the significant events occurring in Philadelphia the next two days only
making matters even more complicated...

This 4 day period will be a very busy - and interesting time for NJT with events such as two NFL football
games scheduled at MetLife Stadium: The Washington Redskins play the Giants at 8:15 PM on Thursday
while the Jets play the Philadelphia Eagles at 1:00 PM on Sunday afternoon - note that both NY teams will
be playing NEC city competitors in both games...

This is how the New Jersey NJT and NJDOT transportation plan for the Philadelphia Papal Visit Weekend
was covered there in case anyone is further interested:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pope/ ... in_NJ.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MACTRAXX

[jamesinclair]

Wow, so the NJT strategy is to serve a grand total of maybe 10,000 customers (AC + RL + bus).

Absolute failure. I guess if you live in NJ and depend on NJT (no car) you are not welcome to see the Pope.

[R36 Combine Coach]

NJDOT press release regarding state agencies and plans.

Only buses that are registered with the World Meeting of Families will be allowed to park in the limited spaces available in Philadelphia and Camden. This influx of vehicles combined with the closing of the Ben Franklin Bridge into Philadelphia is likely to cause paralyzing gridlock in the region.

New Jersey’s transportation agencies are recommending people avoid unnecessary travel.

Will ACL be using its usual single level equipment or multilevel equipment?

[CentralValleyRail]

Not surprised about bad decisions made by bad leadership.
Once again NJT has amazed me and lowered the bar below the surface.

[nick11a]

NJDOT press release regarding state agencies and plans.

Only buses that are registered with the World Meeting of Families will be allowed to park in the limited spaces available in Philadelphia and Camden. This influx of vehicles combined with the closing of the Ben Franklin Bridge into Philadelphia is likely to cause paralyzing gridlock in the region.

New Jersey’s transportation agencies are recommending people avoid unnecessary travel.

Will ACL be using its usual single level equipment or multilevel equipment?

It's not published, but I wouldn't be surprised if NJT uses MultiLevels at least somewhat to increase capacity. Plus, the 2/2 seating on those cars makes for a more clear-cut seating capacity as opposed to the seat configurations on the single level coaches.

With all reserved seating, it just maskes more sense.

[MACTRAXX]

NJDOT press release regarding state agencies and plans.

Only buses that are registered with the World Meeting of Families will be allowed to park in the limited spaces available in Philadelphia and Camden. This influx of vehicles combined with the closing of the Ben Franklin Bridge into Philadelphia is likely to cause paralyzing gridlock in the region.

New Jersey’s transportation agencies are recommending people avoid unnecessary travel.

Will ACL be using its usual single level equipment or multilevel equipment?

It's not published, but I wouldn't be surprised if NJT uses MultiLevels at least somewhat to increase capacity. Plus, the 2/2 seating on those cars makes for a more clear-cut seating capacity as opposed to the seat configurations on the single level coaches.

With all reserved seating, it just maskes more sense.

R36 and Everyone:

I noticed something shocking on this NJDOT press release: They are expecting around 10,000 buses(!!!) to transport
Papal Visit attendees to Camden and Philadelphia - which is literally double what I had previously was aware which
was a estimate of 5000 buses for the weekend events - and the attendance to be upwards of 2 million for the
Sunday Papal Mass...I think that these figures were highest case estimates and I can not help but wonder how
many that planned on attending are being discouraged by the combination of road closures and lack of transit
options to just name two...

I do agree that the Papal Visit has the possibility of generating the worst traffic in the Philadelphia region's
history and I am in agreement that NJT could have done more-like operating NEC trains through to 30th Street...

MACTRAXX

[Sirsonic]

NJT is not Amtrak. The agreement between the two, along with the laws that created both carriers, preclude NJT from operating inter-city service.

[Launcher]

9 trains are running per day inbound, between 6 am and 2pm. Will the return trips be first come first served?

$30 per round trip is reasonable, only a 50% mark-up from the usual $20. (A one way trip is penalized more significantly.) As others have indicated, an intermediate stop at Cherry Hill or Pennsauken would have been VERY wise given the limitations of bus in that area but maybe they just don't have the expected capacity for it which means they anticipate the AC service will be quite popular. Plus, maybe they can sell a whole lot more AC tix on the "nonstop" aspect.

I do not think the 30 min headways would have made sense, except for adding a shuttle between Cherry Hill and Phila every 30 min, which given the track limitations, probably would have just gotten in the way of the deadheads. They could have, for once, maybe cleaned up on all the river line transfers, which is what Pennsauken had been designed to do, but for all the millions, likely doesn't.

[jamesinclair]

[

I noticed something shocking on this NJDOT press release: They are expecting around 10,000 buses(!!!)

I do agree that the Papal Visit has the possibility of generating the worst traffic in the Philadelphia region's
history and I am in agreement that NJT could have done more-like operating NEC trains through to 30th Street...

If only we had some kind of high capacity technology available. Some kind of system where we could double the height of the buses. And then we can sort of link them together. Maybe an engine in front pulling a set of 10 or 12 of these "buses" at the same time. Of course we'd need some kind of system in place to keep them lined up. Some kind of metal railing so they stay together in a row. And then if we put in some kind of signal system we could run entire fleets of them - hell, why not one of these super-buses every 3 minutes?

Just imagine! In only an hour you could bring in 25,000 people! That would take hundreds of buses off the road!

If only we had the technology