Subway Riders To MTA: Keep Conductors

[railtrailbiker]

Several subway riders who were told of a plan for trains that run with no conductors were skeptical and said operating trains with only a motorman leaves the door open to mishaps.

http://1010wins.com/topstories/local_st ... 65424.html

[bellstbarn]

The New York Times for 1-17-2005, page B3, has a more lengthy commentary on the same topic, titled "Riders Skeptical of Plan for conductorless Trains," by Sewall Chan. The three-column article is quite accurate on facts, but perhaps a bit confusing as to what is planned for the L. There is no mention of zero-on-board-staff trains being run on Airtrain. This paragraph surprised me, "The transportation authority has approved single-member crews only on routes with train lengths of 300 feet or less and average passenger loads of 125 percent of seated capacity." Aren't passengers ordinarily jammed into the two-car Franklin Shuttle?
To me, the big question is how well the person who closes the doors can see those doors.

[orangeline]

It's been well over 5 years since the CTA eliminated conductors from elevated and subway trains here. At first people complained about the potential for problems due to one less crew member per train, but except for a handful of incidents early on, I can't recall anything really bad happening that could be directly attributed to not having a conductor on board. Older train cars have all been converted to full-width cabs and 8-car trains (400+ feet with up to 1000 passengers) routinely run with the motorman as the only crew member. What CTA has done is increase uniformed and plain clothespolice presence and have station personnel keep watch on platforms when trains load/unload. All-in-all it hasn't been anywhere near as bad as people feared.

[Robert Paniagua]

Now they may be doing the same thing here in Boston, on the Green Line. Even as a streetcar service, our Green Line two-car operation may have to be done with just one crewman, the driver.

[7 Train]

Already some NYCT routes including shuttles and selected night/weekend services operate with with a 1-man crew (OPTO), using R44/46/62/68 cars.

[UpperHarlemLine4ever]

There's only one big diifference between New York and these other cities. New York has 8 to 10 car trains (especially on the IND & BMT where the cars are 65 feet and longer). In most other cities you have 4, 5 or 6 car trains at most. The congestion in the New York subways is incredible compared to any other city. For safety, they need to keep the conductors.

[R142A]

There's only one big diifference between New York and these other cities. New York has 8 to 10 car trains (especially on the IND & BMT where the cars are 65 feet and longer). In most other cities you have 4, 5 or 6 car trains at most. The congestion in the New York subways is incredible compared to any other city. For safety, they need to keep the conductors.

On A-Division lines (IRT), cars are 51 feet.
On B-Division lines (BMT/IND), cars are either 60 feet or 75 feet. There are no 65 ft or 67 ft cars in revenue service.

[UpperHarlemLine4ever]

I was just making a general statement of the length of the cars. Even with what you said a train of IRT cars is either 510 feet long or if they are serving the #7 line 561 feet long. much much longer than any trains in any other US city. The trains are longer and the crowds much larger.

[7 Train]

Shuttles can be as short as 2 cars (Franklin) or 3/4 cars (42 St). IND/BMT 75' cars run in 8-car sets, 60' cars in 10-car trains. IRT runs 10 51' cars, except the 7 with 11 cars. Most other cities with heavy rail do not operate longer than 8 cars.

Baltimore- 2/4/6 cars (max 6 cars per train)
Boston- 4 cars (Blue/Red/Orange)
Chicago- 2-8 cars
Los Angeles- 4-6 cars (Red)
Philadelphia- 4-6 cars
San Francisco BART- 6-8 cars (?)
Washington-2-8 cars

[Robert Paniagua]

Boston- 4 cars (Blue/Red/Orange)

Actually, its 6 cars for the Red and Orange Lines, but four (4) cars only for the Blue Line, soon to be 6 cars in a few years.

[R142A]

Shuttles can be as short as 2 cars (Franklin) or 3/4 cars (42 St). IND/BMT 75' cars run in 8-car sets, 60' cars in 10-car trains. IRT runs 10 51' cars, except the 7 with 11 cars. Most other cities with heavy rail do not operate longer than 8 cars.

Baltimore- 2/4/6 cars (max 6 cars per train)
Boston- 4 cars (Blue/Red/Orange)
Chicago- 2-8 cars
Los Angeles- 4-6 cars (Red)
Philadelphia- 4-6 cars
San Francisco BART- 6-8 cars (?)
Washington-2-8 cars

Actually, the C train (which is now OOS due to the Chambers fire) is 60' x 8 = 480 ft.
Also, BMT Eastern Division (J/M/Z/L) runs 60' x 8.