Happy New Year & more WMATA stuff

[Sand Box John]

Quote "walt"
Time does fly doesn't it? Seems like just yesterday that I took a walking tour of the Red Line tunnel between Judiciary Square and Metro Center hosted by a WMATA employee.

You and I may have cross paths during those walking tours that believe or not were conducted 30 plus years ago. As you may have read above I assisted Cody Pfanstiehl in conducting those tours in the 1970s.

[walt]

Quote "walt"
Time does fly doesn't it? Seems like just yesterday that I took a walking tour of the Red Line tunnel between Judiciary Square and Metro Center hosted by a WMATA employee.

You and I may have cross paths during those walking tours that believe or not were conducted 30 plus years ago. As you may have read above I assisted Cody Pfanstiehl in conducting those tours in the 1970s.

We may very well have-- Cody conducted our tour ( I had forgotten his name) At that time I was teaching in the DC Public Schools and the tour was a part of a summer teacher's program tied to a then new career education module which was being implimented in the secondary schools.----- I had hair then!

[octr202]

John,

Thanks for sharing those photos and maps. Very interesting stuff -- I think I spent about 30 minutes just going over the two track maps alone.

Its great to see how much progress has been made on the system -- I'm not even 30 yet, but as a kid I rode what was just about (except for part of the Red Line) the entire system at the time. Now there's an entire line I've yet to ride!

What's your take on the quality of construction in the new stations? One thing I've been impressed with is, when I make trips back and ride sections that are 20-30 years old, is just how well the stations and facilities have held up. I can think of several stations up here in Boston that are newer than some of the original Metro tunnels, yet already look like they have decayed for decades more than anything in downtown DC.

[Robert Paniagua]

You're right, Octr. Our newer stations are starting to look a bit worse than WMATA's older stops, and our MBTA here doesn't do as well of a job maintaining them too.

[Sand Box John]

Quote "octr202"
Thanks for sharing those photos and maps. Very interesting stuff -- I think I spent about 30 minutes just going over the two track maps alone.

I am going to spill the beans on a little secret. The 106 mile map has got the attention of some folks in the OCC. Copies are prominently displayed in various supervisors offices adjacent to the OCC. For your information the layout of the track schematics is based on the way the system is displayed on the for large projections displays in the OCC.

Quote "octr202"
Its great to see how much progress has been made on the system -- I'm not even 30 yet, but as a kid I rode what was just about (except for part of the Red Line) the entire system at the time. Now there's an entire line I've yet to ride!

What's your take on the quality of construction in the new stations? One thing I've been impressed with is, when I make trips back and ride sections that are 20-30 years old, is just how well the stations and facilities have held up. I can think of several stations up here in Boston that are newer than some of the original Metro tunnels, yet already look like they have decayed for decades more than anything in downtown DC.

From a purely structural standpoint the newer stations are equal to or superior to the older stations. As to the tunnels the same also applies. Water proofing technology has come a long way in the last 25 years, many of the older cut and cover sections and station show signs of what would be now considered inferior water proofing. Basically all of the A Route Red line from Rock Creek to the Capitol Beltway has no tunnel water proofing at all. When these tunnels were excavated with a tunnel boring machine the wall faces were bone dry and their was thought to be no need to apply water proofing to the exposed rock surface before placing the concrete lining. Over time ground water has managed to migrate through the concrete lining.

One little beef I have is the lack of regular cleaning of the tunnels. The trains tend to blow the crud that accumulates in the tunnels in to the stations making the cleaning of the stations an endless battle.

In hindsight I came to the conclusion some years ago that the aggregate specification that was used for the concrete in the station train hall vaults and end walls and passageways should have been the lighter colored granite that can be found in northern Virginia as apposed to the brownish colored sand and graveled that was used that was mined in Princes George’s county Maryland.

A lot of aesthetic detail that are common in the older stations were not carried through in the newer stations, like how stairs from the mezzanines are supported, the under sides of the mezzanine to platform escalators.

The most obvious cost saving difference between the newer station and the older stations are the lack of glass balustrades in the mezzanine to platform escalators and the change from bronze cladding to stainless steel.

I was not happy when WMATA dumped the 22 coffer design for the cheaper 4 and 6 coffer designs. Mind you I recognize it was done for cost reasons. The horizontal elements of the 22 coffer design did not and does not add to the structural integrity of train hall vault.

As for the so called “new look” design of the post 103 mile ARS surface stations I was not to happy about the design of the platform and entrance pavilion canopies either. I will admit the design has grown on me. I do believe that in the long run they will require more maintains attention then the concrete canopies design does.