Railroad Forums 

Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

 #19939  by arcingcatenary
 
Does anyone out there when the M-3s are going to be overhauled?Are they going to convert to AC motors?
My guess is that the undercarriage will have the look and soundof an M-7.
 #20003  by N340SG
 
They are in the process of being overhauled...I'll get back to you later...I'm out to lunch right now....

 #20028  by KFRG
 
For some reason I thought that the M-3's were all already overhauled.
What is being done in their overhaul program?

-Tom
 #20096  by N340SG
 
The M-3 cars are being overhauled in phases. The process is presently ongoing. Much of the stuff you will not be able to see, but some of the things that are being done are:

Rebuilt trucks
Rebuilt air conditioning units
Seat bottoms replaced (again)
Side windows replacement
New Air Conditioning/Heating control panels
New door operator panels
Inverter retrofit to replace Motor Alternator
Rebuilt Air Compressor
Three phase 220VAC motors replace 750VDC motors for traction motor cooling
US&S "Microcab" ATC package retrofit replaces OEM package

These are presently being done or have already been done.

Still to come:

New radios in cabs
New bathrooms
Propulsion system overhaul

Propulsion is slated to begin next year. It has not been finalized what will be done. Converting to AC propulsion is not likely at this time. It had been discussed a couple of years ago. It is getting to the point where cost versus ROI is not likely to be favorable. Unless it becomes the only available option, I think AC propulsion is a dead issue for the M-3s.
Remaining options would be to simply rebuild the system (if parts are available), convert to CCM (similar to M-1 overhauled cars), or do nothing, and budget the money for something else (bad idea).

 #20101  by LIengineerBob
 
I seen the retrofit M-3 radio a while back, and it was not allowed to lead in a consist due to the fact that it stuck out into your line of sight!!! Who ever came up with that idea?? Hopefully the next one will be better!!
Also, from what I have heard, the M-3's with the MicroCab ATC system have to be buried in the consist.....is there some type of problem with it?? What is the difference between the ATC in the cars now and the new MicroCab system....that just about every engineer seems to dislike??

 #20221  by Nasadowsk
 
It's 2004. Why the heck would GE even be supplying parts for CCM anymore? Or SCM. Nobody really uses either anymore. They're dinosaurs.

Come on, the M-3s aren't going anywhere anytime soon - I've seen WWII Vintage machineery get refitted with AC drives. They could likely easiy re-engineer the M-7 propulsion system to work on the M-3s, and get a volume discount on it.

Only in the RR industry would anyone replace a DC propulsion system with another DC one....

 #20320  by N340SG
 
LIengineerBob,

Basically, the Microcab system replaces most of the relays, decoders, and whatnot, with a rack of printed circuit boards. It is a microprocessor controlled version of the ATC system.

The radios were supposed to have two different prototypes for testing. One being like the M-7, and another type. I don't know what radio they are deciding on, but radio retrofits are still on the overhaul "to do" list. I hope it's not the one you saw!!

 #20331  by N340SG
 
Phil,
Why the heck would GE even be supplying parts for CCM anymore?
If there's enough profit to be made, why not? GE is still in the transportation end of things. As far as the LIRR is concerned, is it cost effective to retrofit to AC propulsion? We'll see. As I had mentioned on the old site, the LIRR had thought about AC propulsion for the M-3, but the idea was "under reconsideration" because of cost v. ROI concerns. Their consultant was shying away from the AC propulsion idea at that time.
Stay tuned. I'll let you know if/when I hear what will be done.

 #20354  by Nasadowsk
 
Who the heck uses CCM? Outside of the NYC area, there's the Disney World monorail, and maybe something in Chicago or Philly or Boston. But the CTA's going AC, Boston's got a bit of AC now, and the BSS fleet is....tiny.

Why does it have to be GE for a new propulsion system anyway? GE's an also-ran in the industry at this point. They're hardly the leading edge, and even their AC stuff is *yawn*. Go with someone who actually ships AC traction equipment as opposed to talking about it - none of the new NYC subway cars use GE. Their business for 'transit' stuff is renewal parts and that's about it. Hit their webisite. They tell you how great they were. Hit Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Siemens, Hitachi, Alstom, etc - you'll see a list of their latest contracts. Not at GE. Tells you something about the product.

Is it cost effective to retrofit the M-3s? Well, they'll be around 20 years from now (easily). Is it cost effective to deal with all of the headaches that switched resistance DC systems have, for that long? Given that DC for MUs is all but dead, I'd be surprised if a new CCM system really is much cheaper. About all it's got going for it is - you guys know how to maintain DC motors and switches. I'm sure you'll find AC motor maintenance to be an easy thing to pick up, though :)

The LIRR is notoriously short sighted when doing these things. I doubt anyone expected the old diesel fleet to last until 2000, and the DM fleet was a solution to a problem that was ok 20 years ago, but now isn't worth the effort, given the massive and continuing buildup of the east end. Then there's the Central branch cutbacks of the late 40's, the Whitestone landing line, etc etc etc. When you're buying this stuff, you need to plan 20 years from now, not 20 minutes from now. It's not just the LIRR doing this - look at the Lico/Lipa/Shoreham fiasco, etc etc etc.