• Toilet configuration in LIRR 8569-8572 Florida East Coast coaches

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

  by bellstbarn
In the fall of 1969 and the following months, I boarded a 6:29 a.m. Ronkonkoma train at Jamaica. Often, it included some Florida East Coast cars that were probably Jim Crow cars, as they may have been built about 1948. The seats were long-distance reclining seats. A glass partition with etchings of palm trees separated the passengers. An exterior photo of the Boynton appears HERE, where you can see six picture-windows for the seating area. Each end of the car has smaller windows. Unless my memory is wrong, the toilets were spacious, leaving a narrow passageway along the right. My commute was brief, Jamaica to Hicksville, and I think I never used a toilet in these FEC cars. Maybe two of the four were locked. Maybe the ladies' toilet had a powder room with chair and mirror as anteroom. At that time, the cars were smokers. Workers were headed to Central Islip hospital. Only with electrification to Hicksville did the train get cut back to Farmingdale.
My memory can be faulty, and I have found no interior shots of these cars. Were there four toilets? Recall that it was the Southern states that enforced segregated travel even after WWII.
  by bellstbarn
Thanks, Steve, for the information regarding the toilets, only two per car. I wonder how many other LIRR cars had only one vestibule. Certainly some observation cars, like the Phoebe Snow pair. In commuter terrirory, the missing vestibule must have been a nuisance. It was far more a nuisance for a black person to have to hunt for a colored restroom on a train.
I can recall Dad complaining about Budd building long-distance cars with a single vestibule, in the late 1940's, I believe. I note that Amfleet II's had only one vestibule.
Many thanks.
  by ConstanceR46
This is a subject i've actually never seen mentioned before, WRT LIRR coaches. I personally had no idea the ex-FEC coaches were Jim Crow Cars.

As to your other question - i would bet money that no lightweights other than the American Flyers and the P72/75s had two. To my knowledge the majority were pulled from intercity pools facing that late-60s downturn that ended up making Amtrak.
  by Backshophoss
It was common to turn cars so 2 doors could be opened/closed by 1 crew member,this was also done by CNJ,NYC and PRR on LW cars cascaded to commuter services
  by bellstbarn
Many thanks for the explanations. I had not realized that heavyweights (until 1935 or so?) had two vestibules but that most lightweights had only one. I guess that view (two vestibules) came from riding the New Haven RR too much! How about those fourteen cars from the Kansas City Southern? The few photos on LIRR websites are indistinct. Did they have one or two vestibules? Were they partitioned for segregated travel? Maybe some southern railroads made Black Americans ride in the passenger half of baggage combos.
Steve Lynch: What do your records say about vestibules in the KCS cars?
  by nyandw
The info is here: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/pass/L ... 0Notes.pdf If referring to the ex-KCS LIRR #8554-8568 Interior: 60-seat (8555-8557, 8563-8568, 8573), 62-seat (8554) or 74-seat (8558-8562) coach; 2/2 reclining seats; mechanical air conditioning; fluorescent lighting; vestibule on one end; four toilets; tile floors. :-)
  by bellstbarn
The info in Steve Lynch's link in the previous June 30th 2020 post is a treasure of detail. I was amazed at the number of coach modifications I could recall, but the lengthy PDF doubled or tripled my learning. I was only an occasional rider of the LIRR over the decades, and this document offered a great deal of detail. Many thanks, Steve!
Joe McMahon
  by jhdeasy
Here is some info on the FEC coaches and the KCS coaches from my LIRR Parlor Cars website:


http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/ ... aches.html

http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/ ... aches.html

I recently found this short video from 1967 that briefly shows the interior of one of these FEC coaches (BUNNELL, later LIRR 8571), while operating on FEC, prior to purchase by LIRR:

Although the LIRR’s former FEC coaches served south of the Mason-Dixon Line in former Confederate states, they were NOT Jim Crow cars.