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  • PAS/PAR System Capacity Management Discussion

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

 #1139767  by gokeefe
 
Discussion in the Oil Trains thread continues to return to the theme of, "How much more of additional traffic can the Pan Am system take without major track capacity additions?"

The answer to this question varies from place to place. In District 3 there are fairly obvious answers that involve the reconstruction of double main line track and some lengthy passing sidings. In District 1 the answer is much the same albeit with hints, however faint that "just maybe" some thought may need to be given to using the Lower Road for freight again.

For the moment PAR and their PAS partnership with Norfolk Southern appear to be "holding their own" against the onslaught of new traffic, new trains and additional passenger service in some places. But if the discussion is to be believed major new additions to freight service are expected along with continued potential for even higher frequencies of Oil Trains running to Mattawamkeag from Rotterdam Junction (and return of course). Additional "stress" to the system is also in the works with expected additions of passenger trains between Portland and Brunswick once facilities enabling these operations are in place.

All of this leads to a picture of a system that is very much in an 'expansion' phase and appears to be in need of substantial trackwork in order to be able to serve the expected demand. I will open the discussion with the following open ended question, "How much more capacity does PAR/PAS have in their current configuration?" Feel free to choose to answer the question from the point of view specific to areas of the network which you might be most familiar with.
 #1139823  by gokeefe
 
newpylong wrote:I will reply by saying it is confirmed that next construction season Norfolk Southern will be coming back to install welded rail on the Rotterdam Branch due to increased tonnage there.
I had to take a look at the system map just to be sure I knew what that encompassed. The name "Rotterdam Branch" would refer to Crescent, NY to Rotterdam Junction, NY?
 #1139826  by newpylong
 
Correct. The very far west end of the system. Roughly 10 miles of DCS (Dark territory) between the D&H at Crescent and CSX at Rotterdam Junction. It was 30 mph when I worked for them, then lowered to 25, then straight up 10 in the time table. Lots of bad rail and ties there... needs work with all the tonnage coming from CSX these days. They did do some ties this fall and the NS Foreman said they are coming back in the spring with new rail.
 #1139846  by gokeefe
 
newpylong wrote:Correct. The very far west end of the system. Roughly 10 miles of DCS (Dark territory) between the D&H at Crescent and CSX at Rotterdam Junction. It was 30 mph when I worked for them, then lowered to 25, then straight up 10 in the time table. Lots of bad rail and ties there... needs work with all the tonnage coming from CSX these days. They did do some ties this fall and the NS Foreman said they are coming back in the spring with new rail.
Was this all former B&M trackage? What's the mileage history?
 #1139944  by newpylong
 
Right now the B&M freight mainline ends at CPF468 (XO) where the new yard is in Mechanicville and the D&H (CP) Colonie main comes in. The "joint mainline", this is really the D&H's legally runs from there west to CPF477 (Crescent) where the D&H diverges north to Canada and South to Mohawk and the southern part of NY. The Rotterdam branch comes in here and goes about 12 miles west to Rotterdam Junction where it connects with CSXT at CPRJ (CSX Controlled). Right now the yard there consists of 3 tracks (2 Running Tracks for interchange and 1 yard track for storage). On the branch there is Schenectady Chemical which is a huge customer and also the Scotia Industrial Park (still called the Navy Yard for some) where there are various customers who get 1 or 2 switches a week. THis is where Schenectady Super Steel was and the Amtrak or NyDOT Rohr Turboliners sit.

Going back to the early 80's the Rotterdam branch was considered the mainline all the way to Rotterdam Junction. It was double tracked for a few miles on the easternmost portion and was CTC the whole way from Crescent to Route 5S (where the yard office is now). There used to be 5 to 6 tracks at that time. From what I know the B&M used to run transfer jobs from there to the big yard in Mechanicville. Someone else could probably answer better than I could about that...

Does this help?
 #1139970  by B&M 1227
 
PAR may be banking on the Ethan Allen reroute proposal, which would put in a couple new sidings between the Hudson River Bridge and Hoosick Junction. It would also include two additional sidings between MP 468 and Crescent. I've heard some people throwing around the addition of a siding in Pownal, but I'm sure this is just railfan talk, and wouldn't hold my breath. Right now there's 25 miles of single track between North Adams and Hoosick Junction (not counting Hoosick middle) so it wouldn't be a badly placed siding if it becomes a reality. I think we'll see a lot more trackwork occurring this spring, as the only thing better than more crews and more sidings, is the ability to get a train across the railroad faster(does anyone know if what track speed is on the stony brook as of now?).
 #1140033  by newpylong
 
B&M 1227 wrote:PAR may be banking on the Ethan Allen reroute proposal, which would put in a couple new sidings between the Hudson River Bridge and Hoosick Junction. It would also include two additional sidings between MP 468 and Crescent. I've heard some people throwing around the addition of a siding in Pownal, but I'm sure this is just railfan talk, and wouldn't hold my breath. Right now there's 25 miles of single track between North Adams and Hoosick Junction (not counting Hoosick middle) so it wouldn't be a badly placed siding if it becomes a reality. I think we'll see a lot more trackwork occurring this spring, as the only thing better than more crews and more sidings, is the ability to get a train across the railroad faster(does anyone know if what track speed is on the stony brook as of now?).
Why would you try to fit two new passing siding on only 6 miles of single track (CPF469 to CPF475)? Doesn't make sense..

The Ethan Allen re-route is pie in the sky at this point, and Pan Am is not banking on it. The double iron in Pownal is not railfan talk, it is common knowledge that they eventually have the intention of doing so and this was stated in multiple Pan Am Southern press releases and PDF's at the time of the company's creation. What was unofficial as far as I remember was another stretch of double iron in Johnsonville which was being eyed.
 #1140062  by The EGE
 
newpylong wrote:I know there will be changes in the Gardner/Westminster area when the T extends to Wachusett...
Not a lot as far as track layout goes. There will be a siding at the station that deviates about 100 feet or so from the main; this is so they can make the platform a little straighter. I believe the siding reconnects to the main just west of the station.

Near the layover yard I'm not as sure, but it looks like the yard lead will act as a second main for some distance, though likely not all the way to the station.
 #1140130  by gokeefe
 
newpylong wrote:Right now the B&M freight mainline ends at CPF468 (XO) where the new yard is in Mechanicville and the D&H (CP) Colonie main comes in. The "joint mainline", this is really the D&H's legally runs from there west to CPF477 (Crescent) where the D&H diverges north to Canada and South to Mohawk and the southern part of NY.
Ok, that makes sense with the trackage rights I was seeing on the system map.
newpylong wrote:The Rotterdam branch comes in here and goes about 12 miles west to Rotterdam Junction where it connects with CSXT at CPRJ (CSX Controlled). Right now the yard there consists of 3 tracks (2 Running Tracks for interchange and 1 yard track for storage). On the branch there is Schenectady Chemical which is a huge customer and also the Scotia Industrial Park (still called the Navy Yard for some) where there are various customers who get 1 or 2 switches a week.
Ok. I did in fact notice the chemical plant was an briefly wondering if this plant had been part of GE's footprint in Schenectady. Come to think of it ALCO would have been very convenient and nearby for the B&M. I would imagine they took advantage of this from time to time but that's another discussion for another thread (and forum!).
newpylong wrote:Going back to the early 80's the Rotterdam branch was considered the mainline all the way to Rotterdam Junction. It was double tracked for a few miles on the easternmost portion and was CTC the whole way from Crescent to Route 5S (where the yard office is now). There used to be 5 to 6 tracks at that time. From what I know the B&M used to run transfer jobs from there to the big yard in Mechanicville. Someone else could probably answer better than I could about that...

Does this help?
It helps very much. To be clear on one point here is the followup:

Were the trackage rights between Mechanicville and Crescent historically part of the B&M or were these acquired, perhaps along with the Rotterdam Branch itself, as part of the Guilford acquisitions which initially included the D&H as well? I'm kind of getting the impression that the Branch is a small part that GTI was allowed to keep when they were forced to sell the D&H and that the "original" or "historic" B&M main line had always ended at Mechanicville. I'll check around a little but I have a feeling you or others on this board will now the answer with a great degree of specificity and precision.

I think understanding some of this background is helpful as it clarifies the context of certain operational approaches and the historical status and present conditions of various facilities.
 #1140155  by CN9634
 
Gokeefe,

I would like to make a few suggestions to clarify your direction in this thread. First (from my interpretation) I would like to say that you are approaching this topic as if traffic has magically appeared and management has not thought of where it would add in capacity. The oil increase has been gradual and has allowed the railroad to 'tool up' its infrastructure and work out crew and locomotive bugs that have arised. In terms of efficieny, it is only a short matter of time when performing the same task over and over again that it becomes easier. Then, when the traffic really booms, the RR although challenged, will be able to more effectively deal with the increase.

Secondly, management of the RR has a much better grasp than you are giving them credit for of their own system and the relative age and use of the sidings and storage from which they have the ability to use short hand. Essentially, there have always been general plans of how to deal with increased traffic, but implementation is a different story (IE, money and nessecity). Now keep in mind that capacity is just a piece of the function for railroad efficiency. While yes, capacity at times may be short, you must also realize that a number of other factors influence capacity. Equipment shortages, crew shortages and hours, as well as other unexpected conditions are all pieces of the efficiency equation and each will have an impact on capacity in a similar way as capacity will impact them.

The way things are now aren't bad at all. The biggest issues arise when Irving calls and can't handle a job just yet. That means an oil job has to sit in a siding somewhere. That however, seems to be improving. With all this being said, I can tell you there are plans for 4 or 5 reactivated sidings up 'nawth' to allow these jobs to sit. Which ones you can think of I will leave to you.

I'll leave you with this. If the RR was a finely tuned machine it would hardly ever have jobs sit and wait, but more so than the broader issues, come the unexpected surprises. A broken rail, a late commuter train, a stubborn unit, a hot axle or even locked breaks are just a few examples of many. They will always face these challenges and sometimes that is the reason the train can't move.
 #1140159  by newpylong
 
Great write-up CN.

GoKeefe, to answer your question regarding the RJ branch - it was always part of the B&M, not the D&H. A tidbit I forgot to mention, was that from XO to Crescent was double tracked until the recent past (late 80s?). The B&M owned one track and the D&H the other. A B&M train could head down the double iron from MEchanicville and go straight on the Rotterdam branch or come off the branch onto their track without talking to the D&H.
 #1140187  by gokeefe
 
CN9634 wrote:Gokeefe,

I would like to make a few suggestions to clarify your direction in this thread. First (from my interpretation) I would like to say that you are approaching this topic as if traffic has magically appeared and management has not thought of where it would add in capacity. The oil increase has been gradual and has allowed the railroad to 'tool up' its infrastructure and work out crew and locomotive bugs that have arised. In terms of efficieny, it is only a short matter of time when performing the same task over and over again that it becomes easier. Then, when the traffic really booms, the RR although challenged, will be able to more effectively deal with the increase.
Not necessarily. Above all else I am simply an outsider attempting to gain an understanding based on observation and discussion of one of the single most important parts of my (yours/our) state's economy. The problem with this perspective is what you've outlined, and chiefly that is that neither myself nor the rest of us who don't work for or have some substantial connections within the industry can't always understand how well (or not) the organization in question is dealing with change.

I keep in mind at all times that a) PAR is a rational and sound actor and b) the consequence of a) is that they tend to make good decisions within their own business context. Understanding what they perceive their business context to be is one of the general subtexts of almost any discussion of PAR, and its importance inflated by the fact that they are a privately held company, and even by private standards they are rather closely held at that.

Speaking specifically to your first sentence I would note that I understand and expect exactly what you've described. But I would also note that until recently oil trains had to be severed in Waterville and six axle power wasn't running through either. That is probably more than anything a function of the specific timing of the execution of the oil contracts (maybe?) in 2011 which prevented PAR from planning ahead of time for the 2012 summer trackwork season. Consequently as KSmitty reported we saw an extended season of work (perhaps?) that focused at the very end on the northern end of the PAR system. In general I would agree that the traffic of course "didn't come out of nowhere" but in the strategic sense (5-10 years perspective) it almost did. No one in 2010, not in Billerica (that we are aware of) or anywhere else was planning for oil trains. Had that been the case I can't imagine that Irving would have had to act as quickly as they did to expand their rail facility.

So on the one hand I strongly agree, concur with and appreciate your assessment. I think it's perfectly sound. On the other hand, using a more historical perspective we are watching a number of different very significant regional actors make some quick changes to adapt to new opportunities. I would strongly concur as well that overall they've done a great job taking advantage of this opportunity and I expect nothing less moving forward. Finally, and perhaps most importantly I would relate my conversation with Mr. Fink, Jr. on the Downeaster inaugural train to Brunswick in which he stated in so many words that the railroad had in fact been caught unprepared as it were for the logistical challenges presented by the initial operation of the Downeaster in 2001. These problems were ultimately overcome and the company has since learned, as he was very careful to indicate, to ensure future passenger service expansions (inclusive of the Brunswick extension) had sufficient capacity built into them to address the challenges presented by mixed freight and passenger service trains.

In summary there is a history of logistical challenges and also a history of successfully responding to them with sustainable strategies that ultimately ensure the company's continued profitability. If nothing else that trend is what I would think most of the discussion in this thread will revolve around. Personally (and for other professional reasons as well), I find the analysis and dissection of these problems and the decision making process that goes into them to be extremely edifying.
CN9634 wrote:Secondly, management of the RR has a much better grasp than you are giving them credit for of their own system and the relative age and use of the sidings and storage from which they have the ability to use short hand. Essentially, there have always been general plans of how to deal with increased traffic, but implementation is a different story (IE, money and nessecity). Now keep in mind that capacity is just a piece of the function for railroad efficiency. While yes, capacity at times may be short, you must also realize that a number of other factors influence capacity. Equipment shortages, crew shortages and hours, as well as other unexpected conditions are all pieces of the efficiency equation and each will have an impact on capacity in a similar way as capacity will impact them.
I would note that perhaps my own mistake here has been to allow you (or anyone) else to get the impression that I think my outside perspective is roughly congruent with the internal outlook of the company. I do as a matter of course understand, minimally, the additional limiting dynamics that can be present due to staffing, equipment, weather, and track conditions but I certainly don't think that our perspective here is at all as well informed as theirs. In general I assume that they certainly understand their system quite well, by asking questions as they respond to new challenges hopefully I (and others as well) can learn more too.
CN9634 wrote:The way things are now aren't bad at all. The biggest issues arise when Irving calls and can't handle a job just yet. That means an oil job has to sit in a siding somewhere. That however, seems to be improving. With all this being said, I can tell you there are plans for 4 or 5 reactivated sidings up 'nawth' to allow these jobs to sit. Which ones you can think of I will leave to you.
Indeed. In fact I'm frankly impressed with how quickly PAR appears to be responding to everything in general, they needed better track north of Bangor and they built it (with more improvements to come of course), they needed more motive power and they got it, they needed crews and they hired them (with more to come there as well). All fairly straight forward really. Good to hear that they will be adding sidings a needed. I have to wonder what this implies for signaling.
CN9634 wrote:I'll leave you with this. If the RR was a finely tuned machine it would hardly ever have jobs sit and wait, but more so than the broader issues, come the unexpected surprises. A broken rail, a late commuter train, a stubborn unit, a hot axle or even locked breaks are just a few examples of many. They will always face these challenges and sometimes that is the reason the train can't move.
Personally I never question why they can't move a train. Most of the time the answer is safety related and in the case of Irving and their capacity issues that's ultimately a safety issue as well. I do find it interesting to observe the kinks in the system as their traffic base expands. What their ultimate response is to these problems is, as indicated above, one of the most significant aspects of this discussion and even more broadly than merely PAR it teaches the reader about the ability of 21st century railroads to move freight. Here we have a problem that in 20th century terms, especially pre-1950/1960 might have implied the necessity for system wide double main line track, extensive signaling and station staffing requirements and large quantities of motive power and supporting shop forces. In the 21st century construct we can see that information technology overlaid onto diesel-electric hauled freight trains has made the system so flexible that a sustained 10%-30% annual increase in traffic can be met with a minimal addition of system track mileage and some expanded maintenance of way efforts.

I find that capability to be pretty remarkable but I also find the situational dynamics that may potentially lead to a more dramatic response interesting as well. In essence problems that used to require the addition of entire separate tracks now merely require a change in the standards of upkeep and the addition of some new ties (perhaps with heavier rail to follow). With good reason modern railroads are deeply averse to adding track miles, reactivating old lines or taking other steps which require them to substantially increase their physical plant. In fact I believe "construction aversion" may be among the single most ingrained responses in the contemporary American railroad professional's head. That being the case watching circumstances come together which force them to act against their most deeply held and valued instincts and add physical plant of any kind, essentially utilization of measures of last resort, is a very interesting dynamic. As alluded to earlier I have other professional reasons for being interested in understanding those dynamics. Regardless, the economic implications for the State of Maine are more than sufficient to keep my attention on this discussion for some time to come.

Thanks for taking the time to bring up some of the more fundamental questions and issues that this thread faces. I appreciate the opportunity to think through the purpose of this thread and to better describe my reason for starting it. Feel free to reply or of course PM me at any time if you have any additional concerns. I personally value and appreciate your opinion and discussion.