Amtrak in Transition

[David Benton]

Will read whole post later, George, but this caught my eye.
"announced through car service to on the Southwest Chief to Pueblo"
I thought this was only proposed at this stage.

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I had posted in a different thread my proposal for restructuring (or rescheduling) the Sunset Limited.

[Backshophoss]

Mr Benton,The "Pueblo Detour" for now is an "unfunded project" in the state of Colorado,
there are still agreements with UP and BNSF to be hashed out,to just to get to Pueblo Union Station!
It's on the UP (ex-DRGW)side of the Joint line.
What was published in the local paper's editorial pages was an idea, NOT a done deal,yet!
Scan thru the last few pages in the SW Chief thread.

[gokeefe]

What I found compelling was that Amtrak was supporting this idea. My interpretation was that operating funding for the through car service was coming from Amtrak because it was part of the Southwest Chief. At that point the problem set is much smaller. Securing an agreement with the host railroads will be tough but not impossible by any means, especially given the decline of coal traffic.

[Rockingham Racer]

La Junta to Pueblo is about 65-70 miles. Top speed currently for the BNSF Pueblo Sub is 55, although a passenger train may be allowed to run faster. My wonderment is: why tie up an engine and a coach for such a short distance. Now, if they went up to Denver, that would be another story. And is the proposal really to run only one coach?

[bdawe]

Ya, it seems like it would be not worth the effort of switching a single car out to serve a single stop sixty miles up the road with a population of less than 200,000. It'd be one thing if we had through-cars to Denver or even Colorado Springs, but Pueblo just isn't all that big. Surely this would be operationally, logistically, financially, and practically better by just running a throughway bus?

While we're at it why don't we switch out a through car to Davenport (280,000), Peoria (267,000), Wichita (470,000), or Antelope Valley (340,000)?

[gokeefe]

They already have a very robust Thruway service.

In the context of this topic I think its very notable that Amtrak appears to be doing something they haven't done in almost two decades. Extending the Long Distance national network.

Furthermore they appear to be focusing on Middle America and Texas in particular. Having slept on my thoughts regarding service I am also starting to wonder if the Lone Star might be restarted. Perhaps it would run initially as through cars on the Southwest Chief or perhaps simply as a standalone service. It would certainly benefit the route from Chicago to Kansas City (or even to Newton?) to be served by more than just "once a day each way". As noted in my earlier post the population base is much stronger than it was in 1979 (or 1971).

[Rockingham Racer]

I'm not sure that's accurate. There was a Thruway Bus added as a connection from the Texas Eagle to the Rio Grande Valley [TX] some years ago, and it did not succeed, apparently. It was withdrawn a few years back. Not surprising, as it was an overnight trip on the bus both ways.

I believe there are other examples as well, but I'll let the timetable gurus back me up or shoot me down.

[gokeefe]

My point in regards to extension of the network was in relation to rail segments. I agree that Thruway service on a variety of routes has come and gone many times.

[gokeefe]

From a Wall Street Journal article about the new Amtrak CEO:

Mr. Moorman, who served as Norfolk Southern’s chairman and CEO before retiring last year, is expected to serve as a “transitional” leader of the passenger railroad, Amtrak Chairman Anthony Coscia said. Amtrak didn’t immediately make Mr. Moorman available for comment Friday.

“Amtrak is a company that spent decades just surviving,” Mr. Coscia said. “We have moved out of that period, thankfully, and we’ve moved into a period where there is tremendous opportunity for us to make this a viable part of the country’s transportation system.”

I believe that the above quote along with the recent announcement of a contract with Alstom for new Acela trains speaks to the original premise of this thread as stated in the original post:

For almost 41 years now Amtrak has been the sole national operator of inter city trains in the United States. As I have previously stated elsewhere for most, if not all of this period, the company has been trying to run their operations in spite of significant disadvantages in quantity and quality of available equipment and the requirement to run historic transcontinental long distance routes.

Although it has taken longer than any of us anticipated Amtrak continues to move forward with fleet standardization and revenue improvements that are fundamentally transforming Amtrak's position in the U.S. passenger travel marketplace. The "Avelia Liberty" trainsets built by Alstom are also being marketed with the premise of launching the "high speed train industry" in the United States. To an extent this is a similar proposition once made by Bombardier with its "Jet Train" model but the key difference this time is that these trainsets are "off the shelf" technology with proven revenue service elsewhere and a far deeper knowledge and resource base for support.

Major changes are coming to Amtrak and I believe that the new Avelia Liberty trainsets will fundamentally alter the political equation by increasing ridership and revenues far above levels that we are currently seeing today. If Acela can be said to be the "train that saved Amtrak", I would offer that future generations will see the Avelia Liberty as the "train that made Amtrak" as they will know it in their time. We are right on the gateway of this new era and it is very interesting to watch.

[Woody]

Sorry, but I think it would take more than doubling Acela ridership and revenue to make a breakthrough. We won't quite get that. In fact, larger ridership gains will come from the Stimulus routes around Chicago when the track upgrades are finished and Nippon Sharyo hoists itself out of the ditch.

We're supposed to see enuff Acelas to add a couple of frequencies in the morning and evening rush hours. So I'm looking for two Regionals to be replaced by Acelas and the Amfleets being used to take the Cardinal daily and add a coach or two here and there to other trains. Nice enuff but not much.

To get major changes to Amtrak, we need an order for more than 700 single-level cars to start, and to stay on course we'll need another order for 700 bi-level cars soon after.

Without those big equipment orders from the next Administration and Congress, Amtrak's withering will only be prolonged, but not reversed.

[gokeefe]

Without those big equipment orders from the next Administration and Congress, Amtrak's withering will only be prolonged, but not reversed.

Woody,

They're going to increase seat capacity on the Acela by 40% (without expension cars). This is Amtrak's most profitable service by far. This kind of ridership at premium fare levels is hundreds of millions of dollars in extra revenues (and operating profits) per year. It's that big of a number. Keep in mind that all of the really big capital projects have been funded by Congress which leaves Amtrak with some excess funds that they can move around on their own.

[Westernstar1]

restored "City of Denver/Denver Zephyr" to free up space for through passengers on the CZ if growth continues on that train??

They're already adding frequency over much of the Coast Starlight route between Portland and Seattle and between LA and San Francisco / Sacramento. However, if the flagship train continues to fill and sell out, then what about a revived "Shasta Daylight" in a time slot 12 hours opposite the Starlight??? It would make mid-morning arrival times in LA and Seattle which are way more convenient than the late evening arrivals scheduled for the Starlight now and would also provide more convenient hours at Sacramento. (Portland would be the city stuck with crummier late evening or early morning hours, but there's still the Starlight.) This would also make connections to and from San Diego and very populous Orange County more convenient as well.

_________________________________
I have read a number of posts where the return of the "Shasta Daylight" is advocated. I like the idea but I think there are problems. Most apparent are the late arrival times into Portland, northbound, and the Bay Area, southbound.

Here is the 1950 schedule for the Shasta Daylight":

https://is.gd/2PYDJU

What would be the timetable for a new Shasta Daylight, if it departed 12 hours opposite the Starlight schedule? The Starlight gets into the Bay Area around 10 PM. If a Shasta Daylight train departed at 10 AM, it would get into Klamath Falls at 8 PM. However, arrival into Portland would be 4:00AM, a little early. I would not mind seeing a new Shasta Daylight start out of the Bay Area around 7 PM. It would arrive at Klamath at 5 AM, Portland at 1 PM, and Seattle at 5 PM. I guess it would be called the "Shasta Starlight".

Another thought, how about a new Shasta Daylight from the Bay Area just to Klamath Falls? It would allow arrival times into Redding, Dunsmuir, and the Shasta Lake area at reasonable times.

WS