Vincent wrote:WSDOT has announced a 25% discount on Cascades fares to Vancouver during September 2010. What isn't being announced is whether or not the 2nd train to BC will continue beyond September 2010. If the Canadian border officials want Amtrak to pay $1500/day for border inspections, it is likely that 9/30/2010 will be the last day of 2 trains a day to Vancouver. Here's an announcement from WSDOT: http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/News/2010/08/08 ... ersary.htmWhile admittedly it's an outside chance, Amtrak might run the second Vancouver train a little past that for the upsurge in cross-border traffic expected for the U.S. Metric Association's METRIC WEEK, which should be sometime around 10/10/10.
After one year in operation, the second Amtrak Cascades train to Vancouver, B.C., has topped its ridership expectations and recorded its best month in July, with nearly 25,000 passengers.The ridership numbers quoted for the 2nd train (513/516) are, I think, ridership on the entire corridor between Portland and Vancouver for those trains, not just the Seattle to BC segment.
To encourage even greater ridership between the state of Washington and British Columbia, travelers will be offered a 25 percent ticket discount on Amtrak Cascades travel to Vancouver, B.C. during the month of September.
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For continued corridor growth, they really need to keep two roundtrips from Seattle to Vancouver, BC. The fact that one of these roundtrips originates in Portland, is all the better. However, Washington State, if they are to keep this 2nd Vancouver, BC train running really needs to look at ways to reduce trip times from Seattle to Vancouver, BC, let alone Seattle to Portland. I know it is "on the drawing boards for funding" - but time for some action to start.
Was there ever a train that ran from say Eugene or Portland overnight to Vancouver, BC, or any train in the Pacific Northwest (PNW) that ran overnight from the PNW, USA to Vancouver, BC?
Not that I am suggesting such, but there were and probably still are, a lot of people who would take the Seattle train northbound to Vancouver, BC; spend the day in Vancouver, BC; then return from Vancouver, BC to Seattle (i.e up on the morning train in time for lunch and afternoon shopping/sightseeing in Vancouver, BC and then back in the evening with dinner aboard the train to Seattle). Course now there's no dinner offered back to Seattle, or breakfast for that matter (sit-down service like there used to be - as far as I know. Too bad this amenity/service is no longer. It was great to have sit-down dinner or breakfast onboard the train, as it saved time from getting an early breakfast in Seattle or "rushed" dinner in Vancouver, BC before the train departed back to the States. And now, one even has to be lined up earlier to go through customs on the evening southbound train out of Vancouver, BC. Would be nice if they pushed the departure time back to like 6:45 p.m. - arriving in Seattle at 11:00 p.m. This would make for a much better "day trip" to Vancouver, BC. I recall that once we were close to the Canadian border and then over the boarder, we crawled to get to Vancouver Pacific Station. This improvement would likely have to come from the province of BC, but is much needed. I think the 5:45 p.m. departure time was set when the westbound Canadian left earlier out of Vancouver, BC. But now that departure has been pushed back.
Still this is a corridor that needs to have it's schedule reduced. The bus trip and car trip is typically longer than the train trip. I did the bus once from Vancover, BC to Seattle in order to connect same day with the Empire Builder - never again! The border crossing was awful and then instead of meeting the train in Seattle for the Empire Builder trip East, I had to get dropped off at Everett, as we were running late with the bus! Supposedly it is a frequent thing - drop-off at Everett, rather than Seattle to connect with the Empire Builder via bus same day.
Was there ever a train that ran from say Eugene or Portland overnight to Vancouver, BC, or any train in the Pacific Northwest (PNW) that ran overnight from the PNW, USA to Vancouver, BC?
Not that I am suggesting such, but there were and probably still are, a lot of people who would take the Seattle train northbound to Vancouver, BC; spend the day in Vancouver, BC; then return from Vancouver, BC to Seattle (i.e up on the morning train in time for lunch and afternoon shopping/sightseeing in Vancouver, BC and then back in the evening with dinner aboard the train to Seattle). Course now there's no dinner offered back to Seattle, or breakfast for that matter (sit-down service like there used to be - as far as I know. Too bad this amenity/service is no longer. It was great to have sit-down dinner or breakfast onboard the train, as it saved time from getting an early breakfast in Seattle or "rushed" dinner in Vancouver, BC before the train departed back to the States. And now, one even has to be lined up earlier to go through customs on the evening southbound train out of Vancouver, BC. Would be nice if they pushed the departure time back to like 6:45 p.m. - arriving in Seattle at 11:00 p.m. This would make for a much better "day trip" to Vancouver, BC. I recall that once we were close to the Canadian border and then over the boarder, we crawled to get to Vancouver Pacific Station. This improvement would likely have to come from the province of BC, but is much needed. I think the 5:45 p.m. departure time was set when the westbound Canadian left earlier out of Vancouver, BC. But now that departure has been pushed back.
Still this is a corridor that needs to have it's schedule reduced. The bus trip and car trip is typically longer than the train trip. I did the bus once from Vancover, BC to Seattle in order to connect same day with the Empire Builder - never again! The border crossing was awful and then instead of meeting the train in Seattle for the Empire Builder trip East, I had to get dropped off at Everett, as we were running late with the bus! Supposedly it is a frequent thing - drop-off at Everett, rather than Seattle to connect with the Empire Builder via bus same day.
I know that the 25% off sale is hoping to fill the trains and keep CBSA busy processing arrivees, but at what point is Amtrak sacrificing more than $1500 a day in revenue in order to save $1500 a day in inspection fees?
Cascades ridership reached an all-time record monthly high in July: 85,972 passengers on the Eugene to Vancouver BC corridor. There were 16,424 on/offs in Vanocuver BC during July, that's an average of about 132 passengers on and 132 passengers off per train.
it's a good sign for the second Vancouver Cascades train to see rider-ship remaining high long after the Olympics.
An announcement may be coming soon, according to The Province, a BC newspaper.
Posted 8/21/2010:
Posted 8/21/2010:
Andrew Wood of the Washington State Department of Transport, which helps run the Amtrak Cascades service to Canada, said a decision on the pilot project is imminent.
“[The B.C. government] have notified us that a decision has been reached,” said Wood Friday. “They will be notifying us shortly.”
“The B.C. government is very enthusiastic about the train being on and they have been working with us on this,” he said.
Amtrak's long-range plans for trains into Vancouver could mean four trips a day instead of the current two.Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/amate ... z0xSJpy5p7
paying for security wouldn't be so bad with more trains going in and out I guess. this corridor makes a whole lot more sense IMO as Portland-Seattle-Vancouver.
Vincent wrote:that's an average of about 132 passengers on and 132 passengers off per train.It's fortunate for Amtrak that those numbers match. Over the course of a month where the average on per train was even 1 higher than the average off, you'd wind up with 120 people still sitting there taking up seats. If it continued for a year, the situation would turn catastrophic!
And if the average off was lower than the average on ... well, you'd just have to wonder what was happening to those people.
*imagines "The Onion" story * .
Moderator worldwide railfan , Rail travel & trip reports
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
Actually, if you dig around in the ODOT numbers, VAC had 8,069 passenger get on and 8,355 passengers get off. Thankfully there are lots of other ways to get out of BC (and the Picton pig farm still shut down--do your own Bing search if you don't know what the Picton pig farm is...). The scary statistic is that a lot more people got off in Tacoma than got on, that might be something that should be investigated.
The word locally is that "a big announcement" will be made this Friday.
The word locally is that "a big announcement" will be made this Friday.
Progressive Railroading NewsWire:
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/p ... p?id=24187
Increased ridership on original Cascades.
Oh Canada, wie rot sind deine Blaetter.
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/p ... p?id=24187
The second daily train currently is being operated as a pilot program through September, with plans to continue the service if the Canada Border Services Agency decides to allow the train to pass without additional security fees, WSDOT officials said in a prepared statement.July: 25000 trips
Increased ridership on original Cascades.
Oh Canada, wie rot sind deine Blaetter.
Next stop, Willoughby
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The 2nd train to Vancouver BC has been extended until October 31, but due to the Canadian government's decision to impose a border inspection fee of $1500 per day, trains 513 and 516 will travel only to/from Bellingham, effective November 1, 2010.
Here's the official e-mail from WSDOT:."
Here's the official e-mail from WSDOT:."
Washington state working to keep second Amtrak Cascades train service to Vancouver, B.C.
Canadian federal government imposes nearly $550,000 in annual fees for border-clearance services
OLYMPIA - The Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) said today it and members of Congress are having discussions with British Columbia officials about Canada's decision to impose border fees that will force the cancellation of the second daily Amtrak Cascades train to Vancouver, B.C.
The Canadian federal government late last week said it would require WSDOT to pay nearly $550,000 a year for border-clearance services. This money would cover additional staffing by the Canada Border Services Agency for the 10:50 p.m. second-train arrival.
"British Columbia and Washington are so disappointed by this news," said Washington Transportation Secretary Paula Hammond. "The economic benefits for Vancouver and Washington are clear as travelers shop, eat and stay in local hotels. The second train has brought an estimated $11.8 million in economic benefits to British Columbia during the year it has been allowed to operate. Does it really make sense for $550,000 in annual border inspection fees to be the reason the service ends?"
"We proved that the ridership demand was there, during the Olympics and after," Hammond said. "We have no money to cover this added cost and we will not ask Washington travelers to pay more for their tickets, when customers traveling into Washington don't have to pay a U.S. customs fee."
The Canadian government decided that the additional fee is necessary because of fiscal concerns. It did so after reviewing the pilot program over the past year and considering the staffing costs for the late evening arrival of the second Amtrak Cascades train into Vancouver, B.C.
"I am extremely disappointed that Canada has taken this counterproductive and harmful action against Washington state passengers," said U.S. Sen. Patty Murray. "This new fee will hurt our state and it will reduce cross-border economic activity that helps both countries. I will be monitoring this situation closely and I urge Canada to reconsider this decision."
Congressman Rick Larsen, 2nd Congressional District, said the second Amtrak Cascades train offers a clear economic benefit for communities on both sides of the border. "I urge the Canadian government to work with Washington so this service can continue to help enhance cross-border travel for people traveling and commuting in this region."
"I am very disappointed to hear about this lack of commitment from the Canadian federal government," said State Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen, chair of the Senate Transportation Committee. "Washington has made investing in passenger rail service a top priority, but we need support from our neighbors to continue this valuable transportation option that connects our two countries. We will be reaching out to our congressional delegation urging their support in resolving this issue between the U.S. and Canadian governments."
"The second train service to Vancouver, B.C., is an important transportation resource and I am saddened that the Canadian government has decided to impose this added fee," said State Rep. Judy Clibborn, chair of the House Transportation Committee. "Washington has sponsored Amtrak Cascades for over 15 years and it's time our neighbors helped support this service that brings in tourism and business to their province."
The second Amtrak Cascades train service has been operating as a pilot project since Aug. 19, 2009, while the Canadian government evaluated the level of incoming traffic to Vancouver and whether additional fees would be necessary for ongoing customs services. After the 2010 Winter Olympics in British Columbia in March, the trial period was extended through Sept. 30 to provide additional time to assess the second-train service.
Total ridership on the second Amtrak Cascades train between Portland and Vancouver has grown steadily in the first year of operation, carrying nearly 245,000 passengers. Of these, 26,837 have traveled across the U.S./Canadian border into Vancouver, B.C.
Service by the second train to Vancouver has been extended through Oct. 31 and reservations can now be made for travel through that date.
Amtrak Cascades operates three daily round trips between Portland and Seattle; one daily round trip between Seattle and Vancouver, B.C., and one between Portland and Vancouver, B.C.; and daily service between Eugene and Seattle, via Portland. Amtrak Cascades is operated by Amtrak in partnership with the Washington and Oregon Departments of Transportation. For Amtrak Cascades fares and schedules, visit AmtrakCascades.com
Perhaps this time Amtrak should pull an "Airline" and add on a hidden border inspection fee, fee to the ticket purchase to see if they can make up the difference.
Jersey_Mike wrote:Perhaps this time Amtrak should pull an "Airline" and add on a hidden border inspection fee, fee to the ticket purchase to see if they can make up the difference.Amtrak may operate the Cascades trains, but it's the State of Washington that buys the equipment and pays all the subsidizes for the train's operations. So, it's not Amtrak that decides whether to add extra fees, it's the State of Washington that has that responsibility. I don't think the people of Washington would tolerate "hidden" taxes at all, neither do I believe the people of most of the US would either.
I also would like to suggest that if the citizens ever learned of "hidden" taxes for the Cascades trains, it would put it "at risk" politically. Any tax fees required for maintaining custom inspectors at the border should be very "public"....
I won't blame Canada for wanting payment for the extra expense of maintaining extra custom officials at the border for the additional train, but it is time for British Columbia to step up and put some of their own money into the train.
As jp1822 remarked, on 19 August, it’s too bad that there is no sit-down dining service on the morning train up to Vancouver or on the evening train back to Seattle. On our first trip up (in 1997), we had a lovely breakfast on the all-coach train, and on our first trip south, traveling business class (in 2003), we enjoyed a lovely dinner , even going to the diner before we left Vancouver. Our next two trips (south in 2007 and north last year), we had business class reservations–and had to be content with Superliner coach; no diner and only take-out service from the lounge. And, just now, looking at the schedule dated 10 May, I see that there is no diner on any of the Cascade trains.
Incidentally, on our last trip up, we were the first people through Canadian customs, and we hardly slowed down. Coming back into the States, from Montréal to Rensselaer, US customs did not even ask us for a declaration after looking at our passports; perhaps we have profiled?
Someone asked, on another post, about through sleepers between Vancouver and points south of Seattle. Well, in 1915, there was such service–a triweekly car ran between Vancouver and Flavel, Ore. You don’t know about Flavel? Neither did I, but it was the northern terminus of the Great Northern Pacific Steamship line. The two ships, Great Northern and Northern Pacific provided overnight service between San Francisco and Flavel three nights a week in each direction. So, with one change, it was possible to have first class service between San Francisco and Vancouver. Southbound, the car ran overnight from Seattle to Vancouver; northbound, the car ran overnight between Seattle and Vancouver.
Incidentally, on our last trip up, we were the first people through Canadian customs, and we hardly slowed down. Coming back into the States, from Montréal to Rensselaer, US customs did not even ask us for a declaration after looking at our passports; perhaps we have profiled?
Someone asked, on another post, about through sleepers between Vancouver and points south of Seattle. Well, in 1915, there was such service–a triweekly car ran between Vancouver and Flavel, Ore. You don’t know about Flavel? Neither did I, but it was the northern terminus of the Great Northern Pacific Steamship line. The two ships, Great Northern and Northern Pacific provided overnight service between San Francisco and Flavel three nights a week in each direction. So, with one change, it was possible to have first class service between San Francisco and Vancouver. Southbound, the car ran overnight from Seattle to Vancouver; northbound, the car ran overnight between Seattle and Vancouver.