Siemens Venture Single Level Cars for CA/IL/Midwest

[Rockingham Racer]

Which portion of the would you like to ride backwards? Or is there a way to turn the train in Washington?

[WesternNation]

East point: I bet the Capitol Limited is the next to get single-leveled. If it were up to me, the Cap would become a CHI-WAS-NYP train and the Cardinal would be CHI-WAS with Superliners, but it isn’t up to me.

Agree about Capital but not Cardinal. Until Amtrak gets more Superliner type cars ( 10+ years IMHO ) some Superliner trains will only get single leveled as SL equipment gets sidelined for what ever reason.. It might be CNO and Eagle and Sunset single leveled to make a daily Sunset. NOL and SAS maybe FTW and single level Heartland.could then ship sparse spare parts to other locations. Spare parts for the older SLs are getting slim and concentrating into fewer locations would appear important.

I'm not sure if you mean "new" Superliner cars or cars relieved of duty from other services, but I can say that the Superliners as we know them are on their way out no matter what. Anderson's people looked over doing a rebuild of the cars, but discovered that they would need a frame-up rebuild and it would be more cost-effective to just purchase new cars. As far as I can tell from details available, everyone is getting single-leveled eventually.

Personally, as much as I like the Superliners, I wouldn't mind seeing single level LD consists everywhere, like the old-time Pullmans that I missed out on. It also would potentially provide Amtrak the opportunity for multiple departures of LD trains per day.

[mdvle]

I have just skimmed through this thread and am wondering, if the Siemens order works out and they finish their merge with Alstom (Assuming it hasn't happened, I wanted to type while the iron was hot and didn't google anything) if Siemens then has the bi level designs, could the option to buy be used and California and Illinois trade the used Siemens cars for bi levels and hand the single levels over to replace Amfleet or at least start replacing them? As for the Horizon cars, I say get creative.

The SIemens / Alstom merger is being investigated by the Europeans as they feel it will harm European railways with reduced competition in both the rolling stock and signalling markets.

No timetable given for the investigation, thus no timeframe for any decision on the proposed merger.

[east point]

In our opinions there is one basic fault of design for the Superliners. That is they are not tall enough. If they were as tall as say the Alaska cars are then head room would equal the single level Viewliners especially the top bunk in roomettes.. That height is not useable now except for Sunset and Coast starlight routes. The problem is that CHI station roof cannot clear higher cars . Appears to not be feasible to lower track or raise roof. /?

[mtuandrew]

Which portion of the would you like to ride backwards? Or is there a way to turn the train in Washington?

Sure, I’d wye the train at Ivy City coming in from the west and make a reverse move into Washington Union Station. It’d be the opposite in reverse, and powered by diesel regardless.

[frequentflyer]

In our opinions there is one basic fault of design for the Superliners. That is they are not tall enough. If they were as tall as say the Alaska cars are then head room would equal the single level Viewliners especially the top bunk in roomettes.. That height is not useable now except for Sunset and Coast starlight routes. The problem is that CHI station roof cannot clear higher cars . Appears to not be feasible to lower track or raise roof. /?

How much taller are the Alaska cars (Stadler are building some new ones too) compared to Superliner ?

[frequentflyer]

Just for kicks it would be interesting to see what a BBD multilevel sleeper would look like.

[Matt Johnson]

How much taller are the Alaska cars (Stadler are building some new ones too) compared to Superliner ?

Too tall to feel comfortable in 'em at 79 or 90 mph! Leave the top heavy cars to the Alaska tourist trains I say.

[electricron]

How much taller are the Alaska cars (Stadler are building some new ones too) compared to Superliner ?

Wiki can be your friend, per Wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilevel_rail_car" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Alaska RR BiLevel height 19 ft 9.5 in (Plate K allows a height up to 20 ft 3in)
Amtrak Superliner height 16 ft 2 in (Plate F allows a height up to 17 ft)
Basic math difference is 3 ft 7.5 in

Other rail car heights in USA
Bombardier BiLevel height 15 ft 11 in
Nippon Sharyo Galley 15 ft 10 in
Bombardier MultiLevel height 14 ft 6 in
Amtrak Viewliners height 14 ft
Amtrak Amfleet height 12 ft 8 in

List of common Plates with maximum heights
Plate B 15 ft 1 in
Plate C 15 ft 6 in (Clears 95% of all rail milage in USA)
Plate E 15 ft 9 in
Plate F 17 ft
Plate H 20 ft 3 in
Plate J 20 ft 3 in
Plate K 20 ft 3 in (Clears 60% of all rail milage in USA, adopted by BNSF, CN, CP, and UP over 90% of their mainlines)

I’m assuming Chicago Union Station allows Plate F at least, I don’t know what it allows at a maximum.

[mtuandrew]

Just for kicks it would be interesting to see what a BBD multilevel sleeper would look like.

It would, but that’s for a different thread. (We have been discussing concepts like that in the Overnight Coach thread for instance.)

[bdawe]

How much taller are the Alaska cars (Stadler are building some new ones too) compared to Superliner ?

Too tall to feel comfortable in 'em at 79 or 90 mph! Leave the top heavy cars to the Alaska tourist trains I say.

Has anyone rode them at that speed? They could plausibly make 79 on some of the Rocky Mountaineer's Vancouver Seattle runs

[dumpster.penguin]

Presumably, steamrolling the double-decker carriages would also resolve any lingering questions about high platforms or low?

[Backshophoss]

Hopefully,Amtrak can borrow 1 of the Ca Cab Cars for some testing on the NEC.

[Tadman]

Don't you think that will go to Fort Worth? Fort Worth is a nice new facility while Erie is ancient and has labor issues.

Ancient often means capable, and labor issues often means underpaid for their expertise. It won’t happen, if anything MPI will close Boise as well as Erie and move everything to Texas, but one can hope.

Ancient means very expensive to operate. The heat and light bills at places like that are obscene. Labor issues do not always mean underpaid. Labor issues often don't have anything to do with pay rates, they have a lot to do with work rules, IE "that's not my job". I spend a lot of time in union shops in the upper midwest, it's a real thing.

[tomj]

dp

I if Siemens then has the bi level designs, could the option to buy be used and California and Illinois trade the used Siemens cars for bi levels and hand the single levels over to replace Amfleet or at least start replacing them? As for the Horizon cars, I say get creative.

Do not replace Amfleets except for those few that are basket cases. Instead first expand capacity on present routes by adding freed up Amfleet cars onto present trains. Then as enough Siemens cars come available make a couple Superliner trains single level allowing for strenghtened western trains. Then if some Amfleets become surplus to rush season demand park them as surge capacity and charter work ?

As far as I'm aware Amtrak hasn't done a 1 to 1 replacement of any of its equipment in its history. Since I have no steak in what happens to the Amfleet, since I live in California, I would expect Amtrak to phase in the new single level cars and slowly phase out the Amfleet over time. I honestly would rather than get pushed into some other sort of service, but that is me. But if the Viaggio cars are coming, the Northeast always gets dibbs on new equipment unless the states pay for it. So if Amtrak does an order for them, I'd expect the Amfleet cars to disappear on the Northeast Corridor over time.

As for what services the Amfleet could get put into, I'm not sure what Amtrak would have the money to do. There are a lot of city pairs in this country that lack corridor service and I would like so see that expanded. But that is me talking as a young person who prefers trains to driving. There seems to be some here that react to people wanting expanded corridor service or even a mid tier overnight service with the "duh planes idiot!" response. So i don't know.