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  • NEW HO Bachmann Amfleets Now Available

  • Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.
Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.

Moderators: 3rdrail, stilson4283, Otto Vondrak

 #82279  by mlrr
 
I saw the long-awaited Amfleets from bachmann in one of my hobby shops Wednesday, right out of the box; all phases.

I WILL say they did an ok job with the Acela Regional CAFE car, but I will leave additional comments of the other cars up to the rest of the Amtrak modeling community, lol.

Did anyone else see them yet?

Looking forward to your input!
 #82284  by Mike Roque
 
Have they redesigned the trucks and draft gear? Do they have diaphragms?

I haven't seen them, but the MSRP is $29.00 and they appear to be Silver Series. I'm interested if they have anything to offer over the Walthers Amfleets in terms of how well they run and how good they look...
 #82316  by mlrr
 
webmaster wrote:Have they redesigned the trucks and draft gear? Do they have diaphragms?

I haven't seen them, but the MSRP is $29.00 and they appear to be Silver Series. I'm interested if they have anything to offer over the Walthers Amfleets in terms of how well they run and how good they look...
They have re-designed the trucks from the earlier runs of the Amfleet I's by bachman and although I didn't take the cars out of the box, the draft gear appeared to be re-tooled as well.

There are diaphragms but they are silver. The trucks haven't changed since Bachmann's first attempt to re-tool the Amfleet I. They did correct the window spacing.

One flaw with the interior detail is that thte cafe car interiors are similar to the coach cars. The windows are not tinted too dark either. Personally I think that would've helped their cause. The Acela windows are darker than that and the interior is true to the prototype on that model.

At this point, I personally don't see what these cars have to offer over Walthers other than the phase V paint scheme, but that's another story. I've been attacked already for pointing out the flaws so I'm hoping someone else will put it out there before I am forced to, lol.

 #82366  by R143MAN
 
Image
Image

Phase 2 looks decent. But Phase 3 the letters are to big.

 #82367  by mlrr
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:No one's going to attack you for your observations, Kyle.

-otto-
Ok, here goes..........

The paint job on the Acela Regional Capstone Coaches is totally wrong. They actually have the Business Class colors (Dark blue band and light blue bubles) and even the patters are wrong.

The shell of the body doesn't look right to me either. The window edges are squared off and not rounded off enough.

Another issue with the cars is that the font is toooo big on all of them. In my opinion, there's a different division overseeing the production of the Amfleet I for Bachmann than others like Spectrum. case and point, after seeing the nice job done on the Acela, and production sample of the HHP8, I was dissapointed by the outcome of the highly anticipated model of the Amfleet I.

I feel bad for all those planning to purchase these and were constantly told that the release was being delayed.

The Acela Regional Cafe car as mention is ok. The pint job they essentially got right but the issues with the body work obviously remains.

Although the window spacing problem was corrected, the Amfleets look almost toy like to me.

The only reason why I made the comment about being attacked about commenting on the model was that one of the guys at the hobby shop that I saw these at immediately got on my case (sort of) when I was mentioning the errors on the model (not in front of any potential customers of course). He basically said everything but call me a "Rivet Counter", lol.

 #82381  by astrosa
 
Well, I'm glad to finally see pictures, but so far I'm disappointed by what I see. In short, the models still look too much like the Walthers shells, which as I've contended for years are very inaccurate. Can't quite tell from these side views, but I suspect the shells still have the incorrect Walthers cross-section, with the vents being perched atop the roof instead of along the edges.

Looks like the old Bachmann shells are still the best way to go for making a correct Amfleet, since they're basically dead-on in terms of detail and dimensions. The challenge is just upgrading them to higher standards, like adding wire grab irons and better trucks. Guess I can go ahead and get started on those, seeing as how it doesn't look like I'll be buying the new ones.

I thought the third time would be the charm, but they just can't seem to get it right! There's always something...

 #82387  by mlrr
 
I think the "original" Amfleet I shells looked fine but after Bachmann totally did them, they don't look right to me at all.

You are pretty much dead on with your observations Alex. That was another thing I noted with the models. The vents also appear to be a little to small on the newer model and incorrectly postioned as you have mentioned.

PS thanks for providing some photos but if you think those are dissapointing, you should really see the Acela Regional Coach. I was hoping to find photos of that.

I'm wondering if getting the molds right is allot more complicated for manufactures than we thought. Bachmann got it right the first time. All they needed to do was fix up the bulkheads, use walthers tinted window concept along with the underbody and they would've been set.

Oh yeah, the models do have hand rails already on the model. The vestibule window looks too big to me though.

I have to admit: a part of me is a bit relieved. I was affraid that the new run (based on the anticipation and delays) was going to be so good that I might have to overhaul my whole fleet of Amfleet I's.

I may or may not purchase the Acela Regional Cafe though. Haven't come to a decision yet..............

 #82391  by R143MAN
 
Its sad to say, that the Walthers Amfleets are still far better than the Bachmann. I Have to see them in person, to sayif their up to my standards, I personally am happy for amtrak going back to Phase Vb. The capstone Acela regional was nice, but a bit out there for me.

 #82565  by astrosa
 
I don't think it's so much 'getting the molds right' that is the problem, I see it as simply failing to do the proper research, which is basically inexcusable considering the high investment costs of the tooling. Yes, sometimes compromises have to be made for molding something in plastic, but that's clearly not the issue here. Someone just wasn't doing their homework, and like Kyle said, it's most likely not the same person who's cranking out those beautiful Acelas and whatever else new that Spectrum is doing these days.

(Incidentally, Bachmann's F40PH has suffered the same fate as the Amfleets, even if it is part of the Spectrum line. The underbody detail is nicer this time, but the shell is still terribly inaccurate and makes one wonder what they really mean when they say 'completely retooled' each time they try to redo their older models.)

Like I said, my take on it is that since over the years people have accepted the Walthers model as the better one, Bachmann appears to have based their new versions on the Walthers shells, which is really not the way to go about it. The Walthers shells have been wrong ever since they were first introduced in the early 1980s, but because they were overall less toy-like and more model-like than the Bachmanns, they have been popularized as the way to go.

The fact is, they themselves seem to have been the result of improper research: comparing them to the brass models imported previously by Soho, they feature the same incorrect cross-section, same oversized and misplaced vents, and the same shallow doorway detail. The only real difference is the windows, where Walthers made the center posts part of the glazing inserts. By contrast, as we've said, the original Bachmann shells were nearly spot-on, with none of the aforementioned errors. They're just a bit lacking in end and underbody detail, which is not too hard to fix.

So what it all boils down to is that Bachmann has someone who's not doing their job very well. Walthers, by contrast, has been putting out some amazing cars lately, and while I don't quite agree with all of their choices of prototype, the models are very accurate. Even the Amfleet II showed an attempt to correct some of the mistakes of their Amfleet I, but I imagine they didn't want to change everything so that the cars would still blend in well together. Now, if they were to finally try a remake of the Amfleet I - preferably without those annoying diaphragms - that would really be something to look forward to.

 #83150  by Mike@IHP
 
I've started buying small fleets of the new Bachman cars, since they are actually the best overall models done so far of these important vehicles. I still think Bachmann's original tool of the Amfleet I car is the best HO model done to date, as it has the correct cross section and body detailing and relief. All it lacks are the window gaskets and better ends, but these are not difficult to add. Making food service versions of the original tool shells isn't a problem either. Using a Walthers underframe (shortened to the correct 59'6" truckbase (the Walthers spacing is too long and incorrect)) goes a long way towards making a nice HO Amfleet car also, and IHP Pioneer III trucks add the final touch for detail, accuracy and better operating characteristics.

The only problem with doing it this way is that it's expensive. The new Bachmann cars at least have the correct window spacing and cross section, and Bachmann has the food service version for the first time in their history. Sure, the trucks aren't as good as IHP's, nor are the lettering jobs completely accurate on the Phase II and III cars (why no Phase I cars?), but a little judicious decaling and painting wil do it for me, and at $16.95 each, I can see adding a nice fleet of each phase to my collection (and hopefully be able to build a layout for them someday ;-)). I'm going out today to buy a few more.

Mike Bartel
IHP
http://ihphobby.tripod.com

 #84682  by mlrr
 
astrosa wrote:The fact is, they themselves seem to have been the result of improper research: comparing them to the brass models imported previously by Soho, they feature the same incorrect cross-section, same oversized and misplaced vents, and the same shallow doorway detail. The only real difference is the windows, where Walthers made the center posts part of the glazing inserts.
Now that you mention that, I think Walthers bases allot of thier models off of brass runs; Amtrak models anyway.

The down side to that as you suggested is that flaws in the brass models (which many feel are the most accurate due to the reputation they get), will end up being carried over to the plastic model.

 #84973  by ngotwalt
 
I didn't like them at all, completely disappointed with the business class cars. Just completely sucked.
Cheers,
Nick

 #86292  by Railpax
 
Would anyone know of pictures on the web of the Cafe & Coach in the Acela Regional scheme?

I would like to see pictures before I purchase.

Also, are there any web merchants that currently have these in stock?

All of my local hobby stores are clueless to the debut of these cars and don't plan on stocking them.

 #86428  by mlrr
 
Railpax wrote:Would anyone know of pictures on the web of the Cafe & Coach in the Acela Regional scheme?

I would like to see pictures before I purchase.

Also, are there any web merchants that currently have these in stock?

All of my local hobby stores are clueless to the debut of these cars and don't plan on stocking them.
http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtAMFLT/amt82025.jpg

http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtAMFLT/amt85500.jpg

They got the cafe right but the coach is all wrong........

http://groups.msn.com/AmtrakModelingCom ... hotoID=132

http://groups.msn.com/AmtrakModelingCom ... hotoID=134