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  • All Things Portal Bridge: Amtrak and NJT Status and Replacement Discussion

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

 #274798  by Frogger
 
hate to say this but this highlights why having the option to loop trains through the round-de-round at West End and through the Secaucus loop is worth it. Realistically if the West End could be double track that would be even better.

 #274808  by Bill West
 
Hi, PRRTech. Your description brings out that it is not enough for the dispatcher to go along with the train crew inspecting and seeing if the mitre rails are down. Which is a process that might be acceptable at a track switch. For our case, if the wedges are not in, the end of the bridge will flex down an inch or two when the train rolls on it and a flange may pick at the rail joint, to say nothing of damaging the pivot bearing. Hence having to wait for a maintainer to find if the trouble really is major or just a minor adjustment. This is where newer electronic overlays could help, they can at least tell you which interlock is unhappy without having to spend time probing around with your voltmeter.

Bill

 #274818  by Irish Chieftain
 
7 Train wrote:One thing the keep in mind: Portal was built in 1910 and is OVER 95 years old. In fact, the engineers who built it probably didn't even expect it to survive this long. You must give thanks to the men who designed and built it.
Comparing a road artery running parallel to the NEC, US 1&9—a bridge structure on there, the Elizabeth River Viaduct (connecting Spring Street with Edgar Road) was built in 1929 and is being replaced in 2006, giving it a 77-year lifespan. The Portal bridge, at eighteen years older and carrying train traffic it was never designed to withstand (certainly not at its current age, or even at 80 years old) deserves a sudden and decent replacement.

 #274866  by MNRR_RTC
 
There was talk about replacing Portal when I left Amtrak. They were going to replace the moveable span with a 50 foot high permanent fixed span. My only question was what about the trains that stopped at Secaucus and to go up that high of a height from a stop and didn't have that far to gain any speed, would that mean that all the trains out of Secaucus would require helper engines to go and over?

 #274877  by geoffand
 
Why not build a tunnel instead? It is just another 1-2 Billion.

 #274958  by Bill West
 
MNRR, is that an RTC’s dream, to be dispatching and returning helpers on a service with a 2 minute headway?

Bill

 #274965  by PRRTechFan
 
Bill West wrote:Your description brings out that it is not enough for the dispatcher to go along with the train crew inspecting and seeing if the mitre rails are down. Which is a process that might be acceptable at a track switch. For our case, if the wedges are not in, the end of the bridge will flex down an inch or two when the train rolls on it and a flange may pick at the rail joint, to say nothing of damaging the pivot bearing. Hence having to wait for a maintainer to find if the trouble really is major or just a minor adjustment. This is where newer electronic overlays could help, they can at least tell you which interlock is unhappy without having to spend time probing around with your voltmeter.
We had our own separate switches sensing that the lift rails were fully lowered. We would have rather used a spare contact off of the actual signal department switches, but they were four-pole switches with all four poles used for signal department "vital circuits".

During the renovation of our bridge, the derailment at Portal that was eventually linked to a lift rail problem occurred. As the South Channel bridge is the only moveable bridge on the New York City Subway system, NYCTA engineering asked us to review and report on the switches and interlocks associated with the lift rails. It was decided that a redundant set of switches and indicators be installed to sense lift rail position.

We installed an additional 8 switches and some relays wired into the bridge control relay logic and to existing lamps on the new console. The two existing lamps were "North Rails Down" and "South Rails Down"; there just wasn't room to add another 8 lamps. We interlocked all of this as follows: If all 4 rail lift switches on one end indicated "up", the light was extinquished. If any one switch indicated "down", the light flashed and only when all 4 rails were sensed down did the console lamp illuminate steadily. This showed the bridge operator whether any switches failed to close or were stuck in one position.

But we weren't finished yet... Each of the relays had an internal indicator lamp, so the operator only had to walk a few steps to the equipment room and open a cabinet door to see which switches reported "open" or "closed".

We didn't stop there, either... Other modifications used all of the spare inputs left in the PLC rack, so we were asked to supply some additional I/O cards. With plenty of inputs now available, we wired the second set of contacts from our eight new rail lift switches into the PLC, and programmed the PLC as follows: When the rail lift machinery was stopped after lifting the rails, the PLC took a snapshot of all 8 switch contacts. If all 8 were open, an "All Rails Fully Raised" message was stored and printed to the log. If any contact was still sensed as closed, a message was stored and printed to the log "Track F3 (or F4) North (or south end) East (or west side) rail lift switch fail closed" for any switch that failed. The same thing occurred when the lift machinery stopped after lowering the rails; either an all rails lowered message was logged or an individual message "(track#) (end) (side) rail lift switch fail open" was logged.

While the "bridge" switches did not replicate the "signal department" switches, there was at least some redundancy! The signal department did accept and allow us to install a set of indicator lamps on the bridge operator's console that wired back to their relays operated by their rail lift switches. These "repeater lamps" were wired in parallel with 4 signal department vital relay coils using very low current, high brightness LED's so lamp current would not affect the vital circuit. The bridge operators finally had indicator lamps that repeated the status of the signal department circuits, and could immediately identify if a signal department switch was the reason for failing to get a "bridge lock" signal. In the end, there were 3 independent sets of switches sensing lift rail position on the bridge, which did speed troubleshooting.

The PLC system was designed years before the project was bid and constructed; and ruggedized flat panel displays for industrial use just did not exist at that time. Toward the end of the project when modifications and additions were being considered, a flat panel display showing an "aerial view" of the bridge was suggested. Every limit switch could have been displayed as a red or green indicator shown exactly where it was physically located on the display; bridge rotation, position and speed could also have been displayed along with critical messages. The operators would have had a real time graphical display of the status of every limit switch on the bridge. Unfortunately, it was too costly to add this technology near the end of the project; it sure would have been nice!

 #275030  by MNRR_RTC
 
Bill West wrote:MNRR, is that an RTC’s dream, to be dispatching and returning helpers on a service with a 2 minute headway?

Bill
This is what my former Amtrak boss told me. I just figured with Secaucus so close to Portal and with the new bridge going to be as high as the turnpike, I put 2 and 2 together. :-D
Plus, I have 5 bridges on the New Haven line that constantly give me headaches, so I don't even want to imagine all those engine moves that they are going to have to go through...

 #275246  by timz
 
MNRR_RTC wrote:There was talk about replacing Portal when I left Amtrak. They were going to replace the moveable span with a 50 foot high permanent fixed span.
50 feet higher than its present height, you mean?

Offhand I'm guessing even that wouldn't be as high as the Turnpike.

The bridge is a mile from Secaucus, so if it is 50 ft higher a 1% grade is possible.

 #275513  by jlr3266
 
That is one of the current plans. Still a moveable span, however high enough that it rarely needs opening, which can be relegated to the wee hours.

 #275751  by Lucius Kwok
 
What's the grade in the tunnels? 2.6% to 2.8% I think?

 #275850  by Bill West
 
Lucius, the grades are mentioned in this post.

Bill

 #276495  by Lucius Kwok
 
Thank you for the link, Bill. 1.93% grade EB. That's not much. Philadelphia's Commuter tunnel has a stretch that is 2.80% for 0.35 miles, which is also gives you an elevation of 51 feet.
 #340680  by themallard
 
Image
Public Scoping Meeting for the Draft Environmental Impact Statement Scoping Document

January 17, 2007
4:00 to 8:00 pm

Newark Public Library, Centennial Hall, 2nd Floor
5 Washington Street
Newark NJ 07101

Scoping Document

For more information, please contact:
John Wilkins, Director-Capital Planning
The New Jersey Transit Corporation
One Penn Plaza East
Newark, NJ 07105-2246
(973) 491-7846

Questions? Send email to: [email protected]
PortalBridgeNEC.com

 #340683  by lensovet
 
The scoping document makes for some nice reading. To summarize, there are four alternatives:
  1. Leave as is; continue maintenance.
  2. Leave as is; construct a new two/three-track bridge.
  3. Modify existing bridge by raising it and possibly locking it in place, as well as constructing a new two/three-track bridge.
  4. Remove old bridge; build two new two/three-track fixed/movable bridges.
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