Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

[R&DB]

The 2 North Carolina congressmen may want to check with their state government who seem to like all the Amtrak service there. (Carolinian, Piedmont, Silvers, Palmetto, Crescent) Without the Hudson River tunnels, they would lose their NYC connections. I understand the Freedom Caucus's ideas on small government, but there are many other things the Feds are funding where $ could be saved, starting with government payrolls and un-necessary departments and personnel.

[johndmuller]

Members of Congress used to know better than to mess around with other members pork, as in what goes around, comes around. One would think that with a rather unpredictable election coming up, pork poaching would be even more dangerous.

[Jeff Smith]

Institutional Resistance? : ROI-NJ.com

I'm going to put the same post in "Anderson, so if you want to argue that, please do it here: Anerson Changes Discussion

This I think shows a resistance to President Trump's opposition to Gateway, and Congress trying to rescind funding. So it also does belong in here...

Top Amtrak exec is latest to warn about need for Gateway Project: ‘There is no Plan B’
EVP Gardner: ‘There are few places you can find a single opportunity of failure for an entire region of a transport system’

There is no Plan B.

If the tunnels under the Hudson River failed tomorrow, the nation’s busiest region for rail transportation would come to a standstill.

Of the 31 million annual riders on Amtrak trains, just under half — 13 million — are on the Northeast Corridor, which runs from Washington, D.C., to Boston.

These factoids come courtesy of Stephen Gardner, executive vice president and chief commercial officer of Amtrak.

Gardner spoke to a crowd of about 30 at the Financial Executives International New Jersey chapter meeting Tuesday in Newark.

Not surprisingly, the Gateway Tunnel Project was a big talking point.

With millennials increasing the demand on rail lines, the Gateway Tunnel Project has become more important than ever, Gardner said.

“There is no more room, zero more room, for additional trains under the Hudson River,” he said. “There is no more room for trains in Penn Station.”
...

[Jeff Smith]

Utility relocation funded: CrainsNewYork.com

Gateway group gets green light for key aspect of tunnel project
Work must be completed before western half of Hudson Yards is decked over
...
The Gateway Development Corp. said it had received $12.5 million from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to relocate utilities to make way for the concrete casing that will link to the tunnel and run under the Hudson Yards development on the Far West Side.

Two sections of the casing have been built so far, at a cost of $250 million, stretching under the east side of the Hudson Yards project. As the Related Cos., the real estate company spearheading the Hudson Yards development, plans to soon begin decking over the western section of the rail yards to undertake the second half of the project, there is growing urgency to build the final leg of the concrete casing. Once the deck is installed, the casing can no longer be built, creating a potentially ominous deadline.

The last section of the underground casing is expected to cost $440 million or more, much of that coming from New York and New Jersey or their state-controlled transit agencies, including the Port Authority, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and New Jersey Transit. Federal dollars will also be required to fund a portion of the casing's cost. In March Congress set aside more than $540 million for the Gateway project, although it wasn't immediately clear how much of that would be available for the casing.
...

[EuroStar]

Does anyone understand why the last section is so much more expensive than the previous two together? $440 vs $250 million seems like a big difference. The image here http://www.rtands.com/index.php/freight ... ogram.html seems to imply that it is shorter than the two other phases. It does include the portion beneath the High Line, but still, they completed the portion under 11th Avenue for much smaller cost and I would think that the avenue has much higher load-bearing requirements due to the need to support truck traffic than the High Line which is pedestrian only. It is not to be forgotten that the first phase also involved demolition and rebuilding of some LIRR buildings. Isn't the area they need to dig through used as storage now (so that whatever junk is there can be relocated at least temporary)?

[Ridgefielder]

The High Line is pedestrian-only now but this is a 1930's-vintage freight railroad viaduct that carried traffic into the 1980's. The footings are probably not trivial. Also, I'd assume that since you're going downgrade there's going to more excavation involved here than there was farther east.

[JamesRR]

Agree. The High Line is a heavy-duty el structure. And who knows what's down there, esp. as you approach the river, the soil conditions might be different.

[BandA]

It does seem very expensive though. They've known this had to be built for a long time...

[Jeff Smith]

Next year's appropriation: NJ.com

Trump's opposition to Gateway tunnel doesn't stop House panel from voting to fund it

The House Appropriations Committee approved money for the new tunnel under the Hudson River and new Portal Bridge across the Hackensack River in the $71.8 billion transportation spending bill for the 12 months beginning Oct. 1.

Money for Gateway would be spread across several rail accounts that are given $3.2 billion, $2.1 billion more than Trump proposed, including money targeted to the Northeast Corridor.

"I am very, very glad to see that this bill provides the funds needed to move this project forward," said Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, R-11th Dist., the Appropriations Committee chairman.
...

[Gilbert B Norman]

From the material linked by Mr. Smith, it appears the strategy is to bury the Gateway appropriation deep within the FY19 Spending Bill and spreading it over several agencies.Once House and Senate agree ("don't touch my pork 'cuz I'll touch yours), the President really can't do anything but sign it. He would have to be Master Spin Doc to convince anyone that the fault shutting the government down rested with anyone else.

Presidents have had their fun with the Spending Bill; remember how Reagan let loose with his drunken sailor line? Remember how Bush 43 rounded up some hogs to graze on the South Lawn while he signed it, and letting loose how those fellows are going to feast on this one?

The biggest hurdle is of course the Committees, but with the Spending Bill, it's simply 218+51.

[mtuandrew]

Tangential to Gateway: would there be room to build a loop track into PSNY using the Empire Connection (or another tunnel alongside/underneath) and a connection to one of the high-numbered tracks? Was thinking about this in relation to GCT, and how LIRR could get in/out more quickly than it does today.

[Backshophoss]

NO WAY! Water tunnel 2 blocks access. LIRR tracks are way lower than GCT's Lower Level.

[Greg Moore]

Tangential to Gateway: would there be room to build a loop track into PSNY using the Empire Connection (or another tunnel alongside/underneath) and a connection to one of the high-numbered tracks? Was thinking about this in relation to GCT, and how LIRR could get in/out more quickly than it does today.

You know, I've never heard anyone suggest this before. It's an interesting idea, but a complete non-starter.

What might have been possible at one point was to somehow tie in the loop of the high-line and I think there was a wye there. But all that trackage is gone or built over, etc.

[JamesRR]

IIRC, the High Line "loop" was rehabbed in the 80s when the WSY was built. Never knew why, but it seems to have been done in conjunction with the yard and Empire tunnel.

As mentioned, it's moot as it was converted into the new High Line park.

[mtuandrew]

I’m not sure if I was clear before - I mean a balloon track under West End Yard, not one connecting GCT and PSNY. What obstructions would be in the way?