The day after April 1, 1976...

[chnaus]

A couple of days into April,76 a train with a LV loco proceeded east
thru Genesee Cty. This was witnessed by the ex LV m-o-w foreman who
was on the line, under directions of his new boss,ex PC m-o-w foreman,
removing the guts of the target signals to be used for parts.

This train consisted of two cabooses and 15-20 assorted frt cars.

Service continued sporatically from Buff until the connection east of town
was built. All the interlock bungalows went suddenly and apparently
B&M was the destination.

A great gentleman who sub'd taking out the ties and remaining hardware
became disgruntled at what A&K assured he could salvage only to find
some valuable items were already taken.
He gave the almost new switch ties at Stafford Int., crossing signals in
the town of Leroy,all battery and relay boxes from Batavia to P&L and
5 complete target signals to the NYMT.
The poles along the line were only butt dipped in creosote and were
salvaged for firewood.
The rail west of Bat was rumored to have been taken up by a CR rail
train.
There are 6 bridges left on the line west of P&L.

[dj_paige]

What are the locations of those 6 bridges still left that are west of P&L Junction?

[chnaus]

Make that 8

Buttermilk Falls- North Leroy
Black Creek - Morganville
Cedar st
Rt 63
Erie- Attica br \
-------------------> might be considered one
NYC- Attica br /
Rt 98 ----may be removed when state does plannedupgrade of 98
Ellicott Creek - Wende

[nessman]

IIRC the PRR Elmira branch still existed from EL main in Elmira to Himrod Jct so LV trains to/from Buffalo could have still used NYC main to Lyons, NYC south to Himrod Jct, PRR south to EL at Elmira, and LV trackage rights to Waverly/Sayre?

The PRR Elmira branch must have gone at least as far as Bellona, because thats where it ends now, end of service is in Penn Yan tho.

It went as far as Sodus Point. Some time ago it was abandoned between Bellona and Newark, and from Wallington to Sodus Point (even though much of the track still exists between these two points - it is however landlocked).

[nessman]

Erie- Attica br \
-------------------> might be considered one
NYC- Attica br /

This is definitely gone. I biked down the Attica branch last summer and I can confirm that it's long gone.

Seems many of the bridges along the LV main are gone (usually bridges tend to stay put after an abandonment). How long after the track removal were they taken out? Many of the abutments are still there.

[nessman]

Make that 8

Buttermilk Falls- North Leroy
Black Creek - Morganville
Cedar st
Rt 63
Erie- Attica br \
-------------------> might be considered one
NYC- Attica br /
Rt 98 ----may be removed when state does planned upgrade of 98
Ellicott Creek - Wende

Here's some that you can add to the list:

Central Ave, Lancaster - now in use as a public roadway
Transit Rd, Depew
Broadway, Cheektowaga
Cazenovia Creek, West Seneca (is this considered the LV main?)

Going east of P&L, seems just about every bridge is in place along the LV main from P&L to Victor (one exception being the bridge over Rt 36 in Mumford), then of course you have the Ontario Central, but once you're east of the ONCT/FGLK interchange, all of the bridges are gone until you get to Rts 5&20 in Waterloo where the FGLK picks up the LV main to the Seneca Army Depot. From the Depot to Van Etten Jct, all of the structures from what I can tell are still in place.

Looking at the aerial photo's on NY's GIS website, the FGLK must have at least several hundred cars stored on the LV main. Getting those out must be one helluva chore if they need to get into the Depot.

Any ideas as to why only the LV structures between Victor and P&L; and the Army Depot and Van Etten Jct. remained while the others were taken down?

[Matt Langworthy]

Your recent forum on the fate of the Lehigh Valley after the start of Conrail is quite interesting. I must have seen CR's local serivce to and from Odessa in the summer of '76. My family occasionally drove thru the area to go to Waverly. I'm pretty sure I saw a couple of trains on the LV main between Van Etten and Odessa then. What industries remained in the Odessa area?

[chnaus]

The section from the Gen. river to Roch.Jct and I
believe to the east side of Mon. cty was bought by
the county for recreational trail use.

The line from P&L to Batavia was parceled off to
adjoining farmers and land owners,while west
of Batavia was sold to surface miners who are
now starting to sell off sections.

[BR&P]

Lots of farmers on that stretch west from P&L. I heard that in the last few days of the LV, one of them had a hay wagon stuck on the track. Being resourceful, he managed to use a lineside phone to advise the dispatcher, determined that nothing was due for a few hours, and then cleared up later when the track was clear. Or something like that!

[sodusbay]

I didn't know where P&L junction was, so I looked it up. You might like this site:

http://www.crcconnect.com/rail.htm

I found good 1904 and 1951 maps at

http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=NY

and http://historical.maptech.com/getImage. ... g&state=NY

Pardon my ignorance, but what was the P&L?

Pittsburg (PA) and Livingston (County?)

[VTM]

"Tis ok.....P&L is.....

"Ptittsburg and Lehigh Junction".....

VTM

[BR&P]

VTM - that's "Pittsburg", not "Ptittsburg". Darn railroaders, always got the same thing on their mind, LOL.

[sodusbay]

To quote that well-known monorail driver Homer Simpson

"D'oh!!!" that was stupid of me.

The Pittsburg is from the BR&P I take it.
And of course until the Lehigh got there in 1890 there was no junction.
So P&L it is.

[JimBoylan]

The Erie Lackawanna was a "last minute" addition to Conrail.

I think I have a copy of the "Preliminary System Plan", which hoped to have competition in the East. Penn Central with some additional lines was to be balanced by Mid-Atlantic Rail Corp., with Erie Lackawanna hastily added when it went into receivership and Norfolk & Western lost interest in merging with it. MARC+EL would have also included most of Reading, Jersey Central, and Lehigh Valley. I forget where Lehigh & Hudson River and Ann Arbor were to go. If the above didn't happen, Plan B was to be "Unified ConRail."

[TB Diamond]

Matt, reference your post of 27 January, 2005: The only industry in Odessa, NY served by CR under NYS LDL subsidy was Cotton-Hanlon. Service was normally 1X/week, by SI-7, usually on a Thursday evening.

VTM: The first CWR pickup train left Geneva Jct. eastward on 21 August 1978 with CR engine 8022, destination MP 306. Engine 8022 returned lite to Geneva Jct. that same day. On 31 August another lite move left Geneva Jct. to pick up the now-loaded CWR train between Burdett and Canfield and handled to Geneva. Reference Manchester: the last train to pick up at Manchester Yard was Extra 412 East which left Tifft Terminal with one box car and a caboose on 30 March 1976. This job picked up the last non-revenue cars and departed east for Sayre in the mid-afternoon.
Reference the Buffalo Division dispatcher job at Niagara Jct.: This was moved to PC Terminal, Buffalo, NY on 03 January, 1977. This same date the signal system on the old LV MT MP 329 - MP 438 was discontinued. This per CR NE Region Buffalo Div. B.O. No. 1050 dated 31 December 1976. Niagara Jct. Interlocking remained in service open 09:00 - 18:00 Monday thru Friday. It was closed by November, 1979.