Taking pictures at P&W's Plainfield engine house

[dispatcher812]

Does any one know if the crews at the Plainfield engine house allow people to take pictures?

[Otto Vondrak]

Does any one know if the crews at the Plainfield engine house allow people to take pictures?

I don't think the crews can or cannot give you permission to be on railroad property. If you want to enter railroad property, pay a visit to the office and ask for permission. Otherwise, try to get your pictures from public property.

-otto-

[3rdrail]

Actually, I believe that they can, Otto, as long as they're employees of the RR. Legally, they're company agents. That's a trick that most news and professional photographers use - select an individual that you know, or at the very least looks like he might be amiable and get the permission from them, often by-passing higher authority. Truthfully, it's worked for me for many years, and there is no doubt in my mind that had I gone through official administrative channels to get permission to half of the places that I have gone with my camera, I would have been instantly denied. Instead, I took the "diverging route", got the permission, and as a result was just as lawfully therein as if the General Manager had made the ok. Like the old saying goes, "You can't tell the players without a scorecard."

[Otto Vondrak]

That has not been my experience, but as they say, "Your mileage may vary."

-otto-

[Noel Weaver]

Actually, I believe that they can, Otto, as long as they're employees of the RR. Legally, they're company agents. That's a trick that most news and professional photographers use - select an individual that you know, or at the very least looks like he might be amiable and get the permission from them, often by-passing higher authority. Truthfully, it's worked for me for many years, and there is no doubt in my mind that had I gone through official administrative channels to get permission to half of the places that I have gone with my camera, I would have been instantly denied. Instead, I took the "diverging route", got the permission, and as a result was just as lawfully therein as if the General Manager had made the ok. Like the old saying goes, "You can't tell the players without a scorecard."

Just because they did it for you doesn't mean that they can legally do it. If you get hurt and tell somebody that so and so
told you that you could be there, so and so might well lose his or her job. No railroader who cares about their job in this day
and age should tell you that it is OK to be on company property.
Noel Weaver

[3rdrail]

Well, Noel, I would say that that's up to them to decide - wouldn't you ? And I believe that you are mistaken in that their ok does make it legal in my opinion. I think that what you are trying to say is that it may not be a company's policy to allow any employee to give such authorization.

[Noel Weaver]

Providence and Worcester is still under NORAC rules.
NORAC rule L, 6th paragraph and I quote "Unauthorized lpersons must not be allowed on company property or equipment at
any time".
You can not show me anyplace in any book or timetable where it allows agreement employees to authorize trespassers on the
property at any time nor place other than a place that is used for passengers to get on or off trains or for company offices
where they may enter in the capacity of a customer or on official business with the company. NO PLACE ELSE.
Noel Weaver

[3rdrail]

Noel - NORAC rules withstanding, no laws have been broken by a kindly gesture from a RR employee to allow a railfan on the property for momentary escorted photography or observation. We have evolved into a society where rarely can a teenager with a cheap camera have a great experience by being allowed a simple safe adventure of photographing his favorite locomotive after respectfully requesting permission. Instead, the norm is to have rules thrown in his face by curmudgeons who are burned out, cynical, and angry at themselves and the world. There is rarely inspiration from such requests, but often resentment. My own experience in police work was that I rarely turned down a request for a ride-along. I would insist that they wear a bullet-proof vest (which I provided) and that they did exactly as I instructed, and I never had a bad experience. I know of at least one guy who was so inspired that he became a police officer. Could I have found technicalities to not allow him to be with me that night ? Sure.

[Noel Weaver]

I do not agree with you on this one and there is no way you are going to get me to change my mind. I ran a couple of railfans
out of Selkirk when one climbed up on one of my engines without permission.
Another example of a potential problem with what you are trying to convince me to believe, you are a conductor for the P & W and you invite a person to have a look around. You don't know it but that person is a lawyer with a case involving
somebody trying to sue the railroad for something.
Rules are rules and no railroader who cares about their job is going to invite somebody to their workplace who is not
supposed to be there by company rules. I know I am right about this one.
Noel Weaver

[Otto Vondrak]

Well, it looks like we've established our positions... and neither side is going to concede.

I personally do not advocate going on railroad property without securing proper permission. Going through proper channels is the safe course of action. We don't want anyone to lose their job or to get hurt because of a kind gesture. That said, it's up to you to decide what the "proper channels" area.

If you want to disagree with my stated personal policy, that's up to you.

-otto-