P & W goes to Hartford

[Mr rt]

Hmmmm,

Seems we don't have a P & W forum ?????

Under NY & Atl I've seen threads about the P&W stone trains,
and this AM saw a thread about P&W making it's first trip from Middletown to Hartford under "Valley". Valley has been the place to talk about the Valley (steam) RxR, so it doesn't seem to be the best place to talk about P&W.

BTW, drove over the Middletown bridge recently & apparently saw the gondolas that went to Hartford in the yard there.

[CSX Conductor]

I believe that maybe Josh Hamilton was chasing one of these trains when he took this and other pictures

[bwparker1]

What is the benefit to the PWRR having access to hartford?

I recognize that it gives the CSOR another interchange partner, but where would the traffic be coming from? CPRR in Fresh Pond??

JUst curious, any insight appreciated, I know that htis has been talked about for a long time.

Brooks

[pw3901]

Well Said David. Join The P&W Discussion List Over On Yahoogroups.[url]

[omar]

Well Said David. Join The P&W Discussion List Over On Yahoogroups.[url]

Naah! Yahoo is too busy - to many blinking & flashing doo-dads.

Omar prefers nice, sedate site where the camels can look at text which does not move.

Besides, Yahoo has tracking software - Big Brother IS watching.

[Mr rt]

"What is the benefit to the PWRR having access to hartford?
I recognize that it gives the CSOR another interchange partner ..."

Nope that's not it, CSOR didn't want to give P&W access to Hartford.
P&W wants it because they want to get thru Hartford & back on their track to the East.

They also don't want to have to pay Amtrak every time they get to New Haven via the Shoreline.

[bwparker1]

Mr. rt,

So the PW is then able to receive cars from CSOR as opposed to CSX, or is it just about the Trackage fees?

I posted this question on the Yahoo list, and didn't really get a good answer there, so I am still a bit confused.

Does CSOR get any benefit to this? Would the traffics between Middletown and Hartford be originating or terminating for the PW??

Any ideas?

Brooks

[Mr rt]

It is my understanding that CSOR has the freight yard at Hartford,
so P&W can give/get cars there vs. dealing with CSX.

If you look at the route map of P&W you can see the potential, i.e.
traffic from Hartford could go on P&W to Danbury, New Haven, LI (Fresh Pond), south (vis NY Cross Harbor).
and if its coming in from the West to New London, Providence, Worster, etc.

Mainly I think P&W is looking for a little more traffic to add to it's trap rock job on the NH to Middletown line.

Another possibility that they might explore now that they can get to Hartford is making a deal with Valley RxR to move freight to Saybrook (this would be YERAS away).
It would only happen if there's enough traffic potential as I'm sure the Valley would want P&W to do most of the track upgrade as Valley has verry little interest in running their steamers north of East Haddam. (Valley has Saybrook to Middletown).
The addition benifit for P&W is to avoid Amtrak charges on the Shoreline.

[CSX Conductor]

It is my understanding that CSOR has the freight yard at Hartford,
so P&W can give/get cars there vs. dealing with CSX.

Only to have CSOR give the cars to CSXT @ West Springfield.

[GP9]

Per the original purchase agreement with Conrail, CSOR COULD NOT interchange traffic with any railroad other than Conrail! When CSX's and NS's purchase of Conrail was going thru the review process CSOR tried to have this limitation removed. CSX was able to have the interchange restriction to be continued under CSX ownership.

[Porter Sq]

When the P and W travels down to the NEC do they use the same tracks the essex steam trains use or do they have another line they use and if so where is it?

[shadyjay]

From Middletown heading south, P&W uses the "Air Line" which passes through Middlefield, Tilcon, East Wallingford, and ends at Cedar Hill Yard. Track on the Conn Valley Line is OOS from the area around the southern sewage facility (near Ex 13 on RT 9) down to Maromas (Pratt & Whitney). This was restored several years ago but hasn't seen any revenue activity in years. From Pratt & Whitney to Goodspeed Yard in Haddam (at the swing bridge), the track was last used in the late 1960s and is overgrown, but the volunteer group at the VRR has been clearing it all out. From Goodspeed south to Saybrook Junction, the line is serviceable by the VRR for steam trains.

The "theory" which I have heard in the past, is that P&W could come up the Air Line (from Cedar Hill), then down the Conn Valley to OSB. Granted, this would only get P&W off 30 miles or so of Amtrak's Shore Line, which may or may not be enough to spark the interest in such a routing.

For the ultimate savings off Amtrak, perhaps the following route should be looked at from Cedar Hill: Air Line to Middletown, Conn Valley Line to Hartford, Highland Line to Willimantic (intch w/ NECR), Highland Line to Plainfield (P&W facilities & PW Groton-Worcester line). This would get them completely off the corridor. However, access to the corridor would still be required for locals. Unless the P&W plans on running through freights across its system down to New Haven, I don't see this happening. However, P&W does plan to put the Willi-Versailles portion back into service. Hmmmm.....

-Jay Hogan

[Engineer Spike]

Is any of the track left on the Midland? I know that it was intact, but OOS for years. If it is still in, P&W could arrange with Ct Southern to connect to this line. In Wilimantic P&W could connect to its line to Plainfield.
I have heard that P&W wanted this line in its early days of independant operation, but PC or CR did not want them to have access to Hartford.

[Cosmo]

Exactly how many P&W customers are located on the NEC between Groton and New Haven/Cedar Hill? I tried asking this question before,(see: "P&W customers..." thread.)

[Mr rt]

There is a Yahoo Group site that I have recently found.
On that site is a list of the customers, job numbers & equip.