Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2013

[RussNelson]

I wonder how many people would actually use this. Maybe one or two bikes per train I would imagine, on a good summer weekend day.

Actually, quite a few. There are already bike trains on Metro North on the weekend. I think this is just trying to force Amtrak to provide the same service so that people can get bikes further north than Pok.

[Jtgshu]

The bicycle lobby sure seems to have gotten to Schumer:

http://hudsonvalley.ynn.com/content/top ... -on-board/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is a wonderful Idea, and with a rail WITH trail, folks could do the exact same thing on the CMRR!!!

Twist it around and use it to your advantage. If Amtrak and MNRR do it, and its highly popular, CMRR can do it too!

[Otto Vondrak]

I'm not even sure what something like that would cost....

I wondered about that too.

Get a price, let's find out. A least it gives us a starting point to talk about...

-otto-

[Jtgshu]

How about reaching out to a little kids camp or church organization or some group like that that are frequent riders of the trains on CMRR, and asking the kids to make hand made signs that spell out "Save Our Train" - something like that would have an AMAZING impact....because then it would look like the big bad politicians are stealing the trains from the little kids. Or have each of the kids who ride the train on the weekends draw something that would do the same thing - you would get a bunch of drawings, could attach them to the side of an entire passenger car and ride up and down the tracks with it.

And be great PR. Gotta start being more creative....just listing and sticking to the facts doesn't seem to be working too well. Kids love railroads....railroads need to love kids - everyone loves kids, no one wants to hurt kids. It would be political suicide for Hein to start arguing with a bunch of kids about "their train!"

You don't need a 40 foot vinyl lettered banner from Staples to be effective......

[Jtgshu]

I'm not even sure what something like that would cost....

I wondered about that too.

Get a price, let's find out. A least it gives us a starting point to talk about...

-otto-

Not for nothing here, but Otto, come on, no one on the railroad has thought about putting a sign on the train, and no one has done any research as to how much it might cost? Your asking readers of a forum to go out and price something for you guys? Makes it look like you guys have already thrown in the towel and are just going through the motions. I know you are involved with them on the webpages (they do look great BTW) and have some communications with them, and are an unofficial (or maybe official, I don't know) representative of the railroad at least to the readers on this forum.

How about a little less "business as usual" and a little more "this is a big problem" and showing some fire under your butts? The supporters are out there, they have shown themselves - give them something to rally behind besides "business as usual". There have been some great suggestions offered here on RR.net - I hope they have been at least considered.

Just my opinion, I think the whole situation is a crappy - and I wish you guys the best of luck - it just seems like sometimes, the railroad is sticking its head in the sand hoping things will go away and hoping for a miracle. You have to go out and make the miracle happen - business as usual isn't cutting it, and not in the court of public opinion at least. Maybe im off base, and if so I apologize, but its just kind of how things look to me, and im sure im not alone.

[thebigham]

^Guys (and gals), we all need to calm down.

All this "Chicken Little" is not helping!

The railroad is NOT sticking its head in the sand hoping things will go away and hoping for a miracle.

The railroad has a lawyer who is going to fight this in court.

[thebigham]

The CMRR does have a 37-page railroad tracks and trail plan.

The CMRR wants a railroad/trail plan.

Obviously, the County and trail people do not.

[Otto Vondrak]

Not for nothing here, but Otto, come on, no one on the railroad has thought about putting a sign on the train, and no one has done any research as to how much it might cost?

I'm not trying to be rude, but if I had to guess, I think the railroad is probably spending its money on track rehab and repair, equipment maintenance, and now, legal fees. As far as I know, no one has yet considered the idea brought forth by Ken, it was a good suggestion.

Your asking readers of a forum to go out and price something for you guys?

I was trying to politely ask the person who proposed the idea (Ken) if he wouldn't mind getting a price for us. He suggested it, so I thought he'd like to help with a little follow through. I'd imagine if we decided to go with some sort of advertising wrap, we would then have to seek out donations to fund the project as it would fall outside the railroad's budget. We are not a museum, we are not a non-profit, which further challenges our situation. So if I'm going to go campaign for the expense of something like that, I need a number to base the conversation off of.

Makes it look like you guys have already thrown in the towel and are just going through the motions.

Sorry about that.

I know you are involved with them on the webpages (they do look great BTW) and have some communications with them, and are an unofficial (or maybe official, I don't know) representative of the railroad at least to the readers on this forum.

I am a humble part-time volunteer who helps with marketing and occasionally track work when I'm in the areas. My powers are extremely limited, and further weakened by the kryptonite we call "the day job."

How about a little less "business as usual" and a little more "this is a big problem" and showing some fire under your butts?

Both Ulster County and the City of Kingston have made the railroad a subject of legal action. I'm not sure how to communicate that ever topic brought up here is not a matter of public discussion, especially when there is legal action at stake. The county and the city monitor all of our activity, which is why the railroad got slapped with an injunction preventing the movement of the passenger cars off Route 209.

The supporters are out there, they have shown themselves - give them something to rally behind besides "business as usual".

All press releases and official statements will come from the officers of the railroad. If you think the railroad enjoys keeping its supporters "in the dark," then you are wrong.

There have been some great suggestions offered here on RR.net - I hope they have been at least considered. Just my opinion, I think the whole situation is a crappy - and I wish you guys the best of luck - it just seems like sometimes, the railroad is sticking its head in the sand hoping things will go away and hoping for a miracle. You have to go out and make the miracle happen - business as usual isn't cutting it, and not in the court of public opinion at least. Maybe im off base, and if so I apologize, but its just kind of how things look to me, and im sure im not alone.

I'm sorry it appears to you the railroad is doing nothing. Everyone is listening. Everyone is reading. I can tell you that the railroad's lawyers definitively answered the County's "Notice to Cure" and that railroad officials are meeting with county officials, and you'll see an official statement soon. I apologize for being evasive and vague. "Loose lips sink ships..." What's the railroad equivilient? "Too much foam derails a good train of thought?"

Your best way to show support? Write letters and buy train tickets.

-otto-
a cmrr volunteer

[Jtgshu]

Just saying how things are looking from my end as a "normal person" - but as a "normal person", in my case, that means someone who works in the railroad industry, and interested and involved (not in a very large way, unfortunately due to circumstances beyond my control - damn you Sandy) in railroad history and preservation. If you want to take the time to make a sarcastic point by point post to each thing, making it look like im wrong, thats fine too. Im not surprised, and was expecting it, honestly.

Im just saying that this is how things look TO ME. and Im sure Im not the only one who feels this way...or maybe I am. I don't know, I don't care. I know things are going on behind the scenes and I know the railroad lawyers are doing their thing too. Im not ignorant. But this is what it looks like to me, and I think there could be many other ways to drum up and keep up support - like making a registration list for supporters through the CMRR website - contact and updates for supporters who are registered - a rally hosted on the CMRR one day for supporters - a free train ride or picnic for those who have shown support/and are registered on the email list, something like that. These things don't have to cost much more than a few dollars for a package of Hot Dogs and buns from Costco or a little bit of time. Simply emailing out the volunteer activities that Mr. Hunt posts each week to these supporters on an email list would be a great idea....it would keep them in the loop and show the railroad is doing something (even if unrelated to the legal issues), and might even drum up more volunteers to get their hands dirty.

My main point is, is there should be a support system and communication with the supporters of the railroad, IMO, to keep them on your side and to KEEP them supporting the railroad through thick and thin, because this is going to be a long fight, and people's attention spans are short and people are distracted and lazy. Let the people know that their voices are being heard, let them know that their ideas are received, even if its a form letter/message, and keep in contact with them through targeted email/facebook messages/whatever every so many weeks/months to let them know that the railroad hasnt' forgotten about them and appreciates their support.

Im sorry if my opinion doesn't necessarily go along with others....but it is mine and I think its valid, and I think some of these suggestions would be helpful to the cause.

[Sir Ray]

The CMRR does have a 37-page railroad tracks and trail plan.

Did we link to it earlier? If not, here it is (pdf format)

[Otto Vondrak]

Other than a reference to myself personally, I'm not sure what was sarcastic about my response.

My main point is, is there should be a support system and communication with the supporters of the railroad... Simply emailing out the volunteer activities that Mr. Hunt posts each week to these supporters on an email list would be a great idea...

There is a mail list for registered railroad volunteers. We maintain a public facebook presence, but it's mostly marketing aimed at selling tickets and encouraging visits:

https://www.facebook.com/CatskillMountainRailroad" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This public facebook page is more focused on advocacy, we encourage you to join.

https://www.facebook.com/allaboardforashokan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's nothing wrong with anyone's suggestions, though the railroad would need some help to execute them. Contact the railroad directly with your ideas, no one is ignored.

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/contact.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not a spokesman for the railroad in any way, and I hope you understand our delicate legal situation.

-otto-

[DogBert]

Jtgshu I know where you're coming from...

Otto, thanks for the update. I know you or the RR can't say much but I think to read this thread and see the news articles one might feel the RR has rolled over and played dead.

[jmarino]

^Guys (and gals), we all need to calm down.

All this "Chicken Little" is not helping!

The railroad is NOT sticking its head in the sand hoping things will go away and hoping for a miracle.

The railroad has a lawyer who is going to fight this in court.

Patients and support folks , by tickets etc. ride if you can be patient !!

[scoostraw]

I know you or the RR can't say much but I think to read this thread and see the news articles one might feel the RR has rolled over and played dead.

Yes. The perception is that there is a lack of urgency. Now admittedly that is just a perception. But perceptions count.

When I read Ernie's posting about a crew going out to put in more ties, I didn't know whether to cheer, laugh, or cry. I hope that the sense of calmness emanating from the RR is due to them knowing something we don't.

[eehiv]

Saturday, June 22nd

In Kingston, Engineer was Earl Pardini, Walt Otto was conductor, Mark Glaser was brakeman, Fred Rasmussen was flagger, Ron Esptein and Pat Smalley were car attendants and Jim Bruck was ticket agent.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209461" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209462" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209463" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In Mt. Tremper, Al Schoessow was engineer, Ray Farrell was conductor, John Prestopino was brakeman, and Neil Remsen and George Peck were ticket agents.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209458" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Sunday, June 23rd

In Mt. Tremper, Walt Otto was was engineer, Ray Farrell was conductor, and Tony Bocchino was brakeman, and Ray Pollard was ticket agent. Newcomer Tyler Carelli was car attendant.

in Phoenicia, Al Johnson and John Plunkett worked on flat 35111.

In Kingston, George Peck and Mark Glaser led a track crew consisting of Ed Winstanley, Jim Bruck, Bob Blake, Neil Remsen, Al Schoessow, and Ron Epstein. They were joined by newcomer Tyler Carelli late in the day. The crew returned to the recently opened section west of C-9 and marked 20 ties for changeout. 17 ties were dropped from the work flat, 10 inserted, and 4 plated.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209480" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=209481" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR