Maine Narrow Gauge Museum Discussion

[bpiche84]

Just an FYI to any railfans in the area.

This is the last weekend that Monson #4 will be pulling revenue trains. After this season she'll have to go in for her form 4 inspection.

Some video/photo bugs were out last week, so get your footage while you can! Even with warmer temps, there should still be snow on the ground in Portland this weekend.

Trains run Sat/Sun/Mon at 130, 245, 400, 515, and 630 PM.

[highgreen215]

Things are beginning to look a little desperate, aren't they?

[bpiche84]

Maine Narrow Gauge will be hosting a "Farewell to #4" day on Saturday, March 29th.

Events will include daytime operations with Monson Railroad #4, who's Form 4 expires 4/1/14, as well as an evening photo shoot.

For more info, please visit the museum's website (http://www.mainenarrowgauge.org/farewel ... gine-no-4/), or the B&SR #7 facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/BridgtonSacoRi ... ne7Rebuild).

All proceeds from ticket sales go to the #7 restoration fund, which is $23,000 closer to completion thanks to donations from the annual winter appeal (http://www.mainenarrowgauge.org/winter- ... -campaign/)

[MEC407]

From the Bangor Daily News:

Smoke and steam billowed from the gleaming black locomotive as it clacked its way around the curve on Saturday. A crowd of people lined the two-foot track, snapping hundreds of pictures while the train chugged around the city’s eastern shore. Children on a nearby walking path waved. The conductor tugged at a cable, the whistle shrieked a salute and Monson No. 4 made its last runs.

“The Federal Railway Administration certificate on Monson No. 4 expires at the end of [March]”, said Maine Narrow Gauge Railroad Co. and Museum trainmaster Brian Dunham on Saturday. “So, this is the last day we get to run Monson No. 4 before we have to do some major maintenance.”

The locomotive needs a new boiler. Officials at the museum don’t know when it might be back in service — certainly not before the operation moves to Gray sometime in the next two years. So, Portland has probably seen the last of the nearly 100-year-old engine.

Read the rest of the article at: http://bangordailynews.com/slideshow/ra ... nson-no-4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BandA]

How long does a boiler last? How many boilers have Nos. 4 and 7 had in their lifetimes? Are FRA steam regulations too strict or about right? How does this all compare with "back in the day"?

[Mikejf]

Depending on who regulates the boiler is the determining factor of how long it will last.

Rules and requirements have changed over the years, with the FRA now mandating an overhaul on the boiler at 15 years. This might not mean a total replacement of the boiler, but it does mean testing and repairing the shell, firebox and other items. All new tubes, and while you are in there might as well replace the dry pipe.

[daylight4449]

If I remember correctly, the entire MNGRR steam roster is on their second boilers (courtesy of Atwood, after he purchased them)... Same with WW&F's engines. Problem with the Bridgeton and Monson engines is that you're dealing with almost 70-year old boilers that have seen nearly constant service back during their Edaville days. Now, without those second boilers, all four of those engines wouldn't be serviceable due to the boiler thickness being way too low to safely hold pressure... Look at it in the sense of a car; you change the oil regularly, and you'll get years of use from the vehicle. Problem is that eventually it'll break and be beyond economic repair. So, instead of repairing the motor, you replace it with another one. It's the same idea with a boiler; take care of it and it will last longer, then replace it when it can't be fixed in a cost effective manner.

[bpiche84]

All of the MNGRR locomotives are on their 2nd boiler, all of which were built at Dillon Boiler in Massachusetts. These were courtesy of the Blount administration, not Atwood's. WW&F 10 is a Dillon Boiler, while WW&F 9 is a Boothbay boiler built fairly recently.

All of the boilers were replaced between 1958 and 1962, which means that the boilers on them now are actually older than the ones that they replaced (50+ years versus 35-45 or so depending on the locomotive). That they lasted this long is quite the accomplishment, given the (now well documented) wasting around the staybolts that was found in 3, 4, and 7 (8 likely has the same problem as the others, but was taken out of service for crown sheet thinness).

While a large portion of the stays have been replaced in #4 over the years since she was brought back into service in 2011, there was still the issue of potential radial cracking around the stays, as well as a lingering issue with the thickness of the crown sheet. The crown sheet was actually the reason the operating pressure was dialed back on the last (now expired) form 4 from 140 psi to 125 psi.

All that would mean that #4's boiler would need the same sort of treatment that #3 and #7 have received: new side, throat, and door sheets on the outer wrapper, a completely new firebox, and replacement of portions of the dry pipe and front end tube sheet. All of that work being done on the old boilers has simply proven to not be cost-effective, so the future restoration of #4 has already been decided to require a new boiler, rather than rehabing the current one. This will save the museum both in time and money, as volunteer's can "simply" (for lack of a better word since nothing in steam is ever simple) disassemble the cab/accessories, swap out the boiler assemblies, and reassemble.

The work on #3 and #7's boilers is projected to be a 30 year restoration, so two Form 4s each. With a new boiler, it's possible that #4's boiler could last at least that long if not longer, and be cheaper to boot. None of these things is a guarantee, though, as things can change in boiler codes, FRA regs, etc.

[Mikejf]

Bill,
That is an excellent choice. Not quite as simple as you made it out to be, but much less time consuming than the repair would be. In 15 years, the new boiler will not need as much work as a patched older one, saving more $$$.

[daylight4449]

All of the MNGRR locomotives are on their 2nd boiler, all of which were built at Dillon Boiler in Massachusetts. These were courtesy of the Blount administration, not Atwood's. WW&F 10 is a Dillon Boiler, while WW&F 9 is a Boothbay boiler built fairly recently.

Thanks for the clarification. 9's boiler I knew was recent, but I thought Atwood replaced the boilers when he got the engines...

[elecuyer]

WW&F #9 was never part of the Atwood/Edaville/Blount collection. WW&F #9 was sold to a group of railfans that stored it in a barn in Connecticut. Eventually it became the property of Alice Ramsdell and while it is on long term lease to the WW&F Railway Museum, remains the property of Alice's nephew.

On the other hand, WW&F #10 was Edaville #5 and received a new boiler when it was restored at Edaville for use at the Pleasure Island amusement park. Unlike nos. 3, 4, 7, and 8, #5 (aka WW&F 10) did not see nearly as much service as the other Edaville engines. It is my understanding that it does not (currently) need the repairs of 3, 4, 7, and (suspected) 8.

So, to recap, Monson 3 & 4, B&H 7 & 8, and Edaville/Pleasure Island #5 all received new boilers around the same time from Dillon Boiler.

For the sake of a complete roster of American two-foot locomotives in Maine, we must include SD Warren #1 and #2, at Boothbay Railway Village. #2 is under restoration (and I think is also getting a new boiler.) Honorable mention goes to WW&F #11, which is in the EARLY stages of construction.

It boils down to this:
[SD Warren] #1 - On display at Boothbay Railway Village
[SD Warren] #2 - Under restoration at Boothbay Railway Village
[Monson] #3 - under restoration; boiler repairs are complete, assembly underway; on lease to SR&RL Railway Museum
[Monson] #4 - will not operate until a new boiler is constructed, remains at Maine Narrow Gauge Museum
[Edaville] #5 - (WW&F #10) In service at WW&F Railway Museum [was not an original "Maine Two-Footer"]
[B&H] #7 - under restoration; boiler repairs are underway; will become new operational steam at Maine Narrow Gauge Museum
[B&H] #8 - In storage at Maine Narrow Gauge Museum; Will likely need major boiler repair (or replacement) to make operational
[WW&F] #9 - In final stages of restoration at WW&F Railway museum. New boiler constructed by Boothbay Railway Village. Original 1890 lap-seam boiler on display at WW&F Museum.
[WW&F] #11 - New locomotive replica of WW&F #7, to be constructed by the WW&F Railway Museum

If anyone would like to support the restoration (or construction) of any of these engines, I'm sure donations of money and time would be greatly appreciated.

[markhb]

It sounds like the MNGRR is on the verge of at least having a physical presence of some sort in Gray... From The Portland Daily Sun:

Maine Narrow Gauge on track to move to Gray
The Maine Narrow Gauge Railroad Co. & Museum will take a "major step forward toward relocating operations to Gray," according to a press release, as a ceremony is planned on Friday, April 11, at 11:30 a.m. at the site of a proposed new museum and train station at the Gray Plaza on Portland Road in the Town of Gray.
Central Maine Power will present the deed for the right-of-way to the Maine Narrow Gauge, the nonprofit railroad museum's press release stated....

New owners of the Portland Company, after "investing heavily in the property," were agreeable to the railroad remaining, but for how long is a financial concern, Carroll said.
"Our plan is, as we continue to operate pretty much through 2015 without any real issues, we have talked to the new owners, they'd like to start doing something here in 2015. ... It's from that point on that's a question mark," he said.

[MEC407]

Photos by Kevin Madore:


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=477069" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=477067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MEC407]

Two more nice shots by Mr. Madore:


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=477162" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=477168" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[KevinM]

Folks,

Here is a link to an RP.net album that contains a selection of the images that I shot up in Portland on 3/29/14, which was Monson #4's last operating day.

http://www.railpictures.net/album/1725/

Thanks to the folk up at the Maine Narrow Gauge Railroad Company & Museum for putting this event on! I am very much looking forward to seeing B&SR #7 on the rails in 2015!

/Kevin Madore