How many CA&E cars left?

[MR77100]

Call me spoiled, but I am a little disappointed that more of them could have been saved, especially more of the Pullmans. I'm guessing the freight motors were cut up as well?

[MR77100]

I have info on the cars at IRM. While doing volunteer work there last weekend, they had cars 308 and 309 sandwiching 321. The 321 does not have any trolley poles on it, due to some work needed on the roof. It is painted red and grey, and the seats on the inside are gone. They had a few plush chairs, and couches strew about inside the car, and they were very comfortable. The car will need some work, but it is good to see it at least stetching its wheels. The 308 and 309 are painted blue with red trim, and look as though they were delivered yesterday! It's hard to believe they are nearly a century old. I heard that they all came from different builders as well. Did the Hicks car company stay in business for long?

[Frank Hicks]

I have info on the cars at IRM. While doing volunteer work there last weekend, they had cars 308 and 309 sandwiching 321. ...I heard that they all came from different builders as well. Did the Hicks car company stay in business for long?

Glad you liked the "parlor car seating" in the 321! You're right, all three cars are from different builders - 308 is Niles, 309 Hicks and 321 Jewett. Hicks Locomotive & Car Works was in business about 15 years, if I remember right, from about 1901 or 1902 until right around WWI. In 1912 it was sold by its founder, F.M. Hicks (no relation), and renamed the Central Locomotive & Car Works.

As for the original topic, preserved CA&E cars, here's a run-down:

11 (Niles/line car) - Fox River Trolley Museum (FRTM)
20 (Niles) - FRTM
36 (Stephenson) - Trolleyville USA (TUSA)
303 (Niles) - Illinois Railway Museum (IRM)
308 (Niles) - IRM
309 (Hicks) - IRM
315 (Kuhlman) - Rockhill Trolley Museum
316 (Jewett) - FRTM
317 (Jewett) - FRTM
319 (Jewett) - TUSA
320 (Jewett) - Midwest Electric Railway Museum
321 (Jewett) - IRM
409 (Pullman) - TUSA
431 (Cincinnati) - IRM
434 (Cincinnati) - Seashore Trolley Museum
451 (St. Louis) - TUSA
453 (St. Louis) - TUSA
458 (St. Louis) - TUSA
460 (St. Louis) - TUSA

Car 318 was destroyed by Penn Central in a switching accident in the 1970's; its parts will go to restore car 321. Of the above cars, 20, 36, 303, 308, 309, 315, 316, 320, 321, 431, 434, 451 and 460 are operational.

Frank Hicks
Illinois Railway Museum

[aline1969]

Frank Hicks, long time to hear.... We got 420 running this year. I was elected trustee this year. I am leading the fundraising to extend and build trolley bus loops.

Hope all is well.

[MR77100]

Where was the the 318 headed to when it was wrecked? I'm guessing you rode the CA&E train on Member's night as well, Frank. BTW, when did we get #303?

[Frank Hicks]

Where was the the 318 headed to when it was wrecked?

It had been owned by the Indiana Railway Museum, which at the time was located in Westport (they later relocated to their current location in French Lick, IN). They towed the 318 around with an 0-4-0T; there's a photo in the book "Twilight of Steam" of this. Indiana Railway Museum traded the car to The Wisconsin Electric Railway Historical Society in East Troy, WI, I believe for a couple of reefers, and it was en route when Penn Central collapsed the ends in a yard in Gary. That was in 1971 or 1972. TWERHS then had it shipped to Mason City, Iowa, where they hoped Ed Arnold (ex-CA&E employee and then master mechanic of the Iowa Terminal) could repair it, but it was pretty much unsalvageable. They then shipped the car to East Troy, where it sat until 1977, when they sold it to IRM and it was stripped and scrapped on-site in East Troy.

I'm guessing you rode the CA&E train on Member's night as well, Frank. BTW, when did we get #303?

You're correct - I was the conductor (the goofball in the Milwaukee Road uniform!) and then motorman on the later 309-only trip. I assume you mean when did we get 308? That was in November 1996. The Indiana Transportation Museum deaccessed it to raise cash, and one of our members donated the cost of purchasing the car. Restoration began in 1998, the car was made operational in 2002, and it entered revenue service in 2003. Restoration work on 308 is scheduled to be completed next year, and we hope to have a celebration or rededication ceremony of some sort.

Frank Hicks

[MR77100]

Interesting. Are we going to start work on #321 as well? That car needs alot of interior work of course, but the body is in good shape. My father might want to do some work on it, since he wants to get involved In reference to the 308's builder, was Niles the same as Brill? BTW, I work in the Diesel department,and am usually dressed in full Illinois Terminal attire; T-shirt and cap. I come up to the museum once or twice a month, so I will probably run into you soon.

[Frank Hicks]

Interesting. Are we going to start work on #321 as well? That car needs alot of interior work of course, but the body is in good shape. My father might want to do some work on it, since he wants to get involved In reference to the 308's builder, was Niles the same as Brill? BTW, I work in the Diesel department,and am usually dressed in full Illinois Terminal attire; T-shirt and cap. I come up to the museum once or twice a month, so I will probably run into you soon.

Work on 321 is scheduled to begin in 2008. Our plan is to finish 308 next year, then spend a year or two finishing up all the little things on the 309 that never got done the first time around, then start on 321 in about 2008. The 321 will need a new roof and rebuilt ends, which together should take about six years; then we start on the interior. We're always in need of more people, particularly to work on the current project (now 308, soon to be 309) - tell your father we'd love to have him join the team!

Niles Car & Manufacturing was an independent company and was never acquired by Brill as some other builders like American and Kuhlman were; Niles went out of business around 1917 at about the same time as Jewett.

Frank Hicks

[rswinnerton]

Rockhill Trolley Museum has 315 and is currently restoring it. I was in operating condition, but needed some work. Check out their website
www.rockhilltrolley.org

[dinwitty]

didnt a new trolley museum open near cleveland?

[dinwitty]

http://www.lsery.org/

answered my own question.
They have moved all the equipment.

I was there around mid 1980's rode the CA&E car and shot film, I still have that.

[polybalt]

There is a great site that has a data base containing the status of all preserved electric railway cars in North America that is perfect for questions like this. The link is:
http://www.bera.org/pnaerc.html

It is very accurate and up to date. Highlighting "Chicago, Aurora, and Elgin" in the table marked "previously owned by" and hitting "search" leads to a list of 19 CA&E cars preserved and provides roster information and current status as well.

[Otto Vondrak]

See also:

http://railroad.net/articles/railfanning/cae309/

http://railroad.net/articles/railfanning/cae308/

[Montclaire]

Electric City just picked up 453 from the Lake Shore auction, no idea what kind of shape it's in though.