by milkman
On my way to Norwich yesterday I saw equipment going north on the tracks when I came to the RR crossing on Rt 12 just south of North Norwich.
Railroad Forums
Utica Branch Discussion Thread
- Discussion related to New York, Susquehanna & Western operations past and present. Also includes some discussion related to Deleware Otsego owned and operated shortlines. Official web site can be found here: NYSW.COM.
Moderators: GOLDEN-ARM, NJ Vike
by ut-1
Here is UT-1 passing southbound through Durant Farms yesterday afternoon at 4:08. The freight was taking seven covered hoppers to Sangerfield.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
by milkman
Nice pic ut-1,I saw that train Monday at the stop light crossing on Rt 12 in Utica.
The tracks through Chenango county are looking real good with all the work that's been done so far.
The tracks through Chenango county are looking real good with all the work that's been done so far.
by ut-1
Here is UT-1 heading down Paris Hill in Paris Station last night, 5:38 pm.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
by milkman
Heard on the radio on the way home tonight that the restoration of the Utica line is nearing completion.When I hear or read more on this I will let you know.
by NYS&W142Fan
Sounds like they are ahead of schedule!! That is great news!
by milkman
If you want to read about it go to the the radio stations web site,WCDO in Sidney NY and click on Friday news.http://www.wcdoradio.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
by Rail Trails Fail
Hi all, some of the pics from the greene area as the team concludes their work. Courtesy of Richard Anderson.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
by JTBernier
Greetings, all...
I know this isn't a modelers forum, but...
I've been lurking for a while, trying to learn about the operations around the north end of the Utica branch - Sangerfield northwards - as I'm attempting to model the CSX interchange at Utica and parts.
I was originally going to try to model the Syracuse branch, having spent 10 years living near Jamesville. But UT-1's videos inspired me to look at Utica - and in my mind, looks far more interesting - especially since I like switching layouts.
After reading through this thread, and looking at Google maps, I've identified some of the NYSW customers along the Utica Branch - but I'd like some help understanding some of the loads and customers.
I'll start up at the north end with Matt Brewery. Not knowing much about beer making, what would the covered hoppers be carrying?
Next stop appears to be on the old NYO&W branch. I see box cars being dropped off at a non-descript building referred to as Oneida Warehouse. Also on the ex-NYO&W tracks, DI Highway signs taking a bulkhead flat of steel. Do they ever have loads out?
At Sangerfield, I've been able to identify some... Kent Nutrition taking covered hoppers... Oneida Asphalt taking takers... Sangerfield Feeds taking covered hoppers. From the satellite view, there appears to be a significant number of hoppers on various sidings other than the above.
Lastly, I know there was a plastics customer at one time. But I haven't been able to figure out where.
My apologies if this is an inappropriate post for this forum.
I know this isn't a modelers forum, but...
I've been lurking for a while, trying to learn about the operations around the north end of the Utica branch - Sangerfield northwards - as I'm attempting to model the CSX interchange at Utica and parts.
I was originally going to try to model the Syracuse branch, having spent 10 years living near Jamesville. But UT-1's videos inspired me to look at Utica - and in my mind, looks far more interesting - especially since I like switching layouts.
After reading through this thread, and looking at Google maps, I've identified some of the NYSW customers along the Utica Branch - but I'd like some help understanding some of the loads and customers.
I'll start up at the north end with Matt Brewery. Not knowing much about beer making, what would the covered hoppers be carrying?
Next stop appears to be on the old NYO&W branch. I see box cars being dropped off at a non-descript building referred to as Oneida Warehouse. Also on the ex-NYO&W tracks, DI Highway signs taking a bulkhead flat of steel. Do they ever have loads out?
At Sangerfield, I've been able to identify some... Kent Nutrition taking covered hoppers... Oneida Asphalt taking takers... Sangerfield Feeds taking covered hoppers. From the satellite view, there appears to be a significant number of hoppers on various sidings other than the above.
Lastly, I know there was a plastics customer at one time. But I haven't been able to figure out where.
My apologies if this is an inappropriate post for this forum.
by ut-1
Hello JT Bernier!
Matt's Brewery receives grain products used in making brewskis; I think barley comes in, not sure what else.
Approximately 2 miles south of Matt's, a branch goes off the Utica-Binghamton main line. Initially, these tracks are of West Shore (NY Central heritage). Approx 1/2 mile off the Utica main, a junction is reached with tracks once part of the NYO&W's Utica branch. These tracks lead to New Hartford's Oneida Warehouse which receives boxcars containing 500 lb bales of paper product. These are then distributed to several area mills by truck.
The line veers off, however, past the point of intersection with the NYO&W tracks, and continues on to New York Mills. This is still ex-West Shore territory.
The first customer reached is McCraith Beverages. They receive an occasional boxcar. Not sure exactly what they receive, though I've heard it's Coors beer.
Next, is Fountainhead Group. They receive covered hoppers containing plastic pellets. They make plastic sprayers for garden purposes.
Next, SCI plywood. They receive boxcars of, you guessed it, plywood.
End of the line is Di-Highway. They receive steel for use in making guard rails for highways. They don't ship product out.
Back on the Utica main and heading south, the first customer reached is Louis J. Gale & Son, a feed mill and a long-time (DL&W days) railroad customer. It is located in Waterville. This would be a great spot to model as it really smacks of old-time railroading.
About 1.5 mile south will bring you to Sangerfield. There are two giant agro-businesses there, one on either side of US 20 and Oneida Asphalt, which receives tank cars.
Check out my YouTube channel, "Railroading Rambler," as I have many videos there regarding Utica Branch operations
Matt's Brewery receives grain products used in making brewskis; I think barley comes in, not sure what else.
Approximately 2 miles south of Matt's, a branch goes off the Utica-Binghamton main line. Initially, these tracks are of West Shore (NY Central heritage). Approx 1/2 mile off the Utica main, a junction is reached with tracks once part of the NYO&W's Utica branch. These tracks lead to New Hartford's Oneida Warehouse which receives boxcars containing 500 lb bales of paper product. These are then distributed to several area mills by truck.
The line veers off, however, past the point of intersection with the NYO&W tracks, and continues on to New York Mills. This is still ex-West Shore territory.
The first customer reached is McCraith Beverages. They receive an occasional boxcar. Not sure exactly what they receive, though I've heard it's Coors beer.
Next, is Fountainhead Group. They receive covered hoppers containing plastic pellets. They make plastic sprayers for garden purposes.
Next, SCI plywood. They receive boxcars of, you guessed it, plywood.
End of the line is Di-Highway. They receive steel for use in making guard rails for highways. They don't ship product out.
Back on the Utica main and heading south, the first customer reached is Louis J. Gale & Son, a feed mill and a long-time (DL&W days) railroad customer. It is located in Waterville. This would be a great spot to model as it really smacks of old-time railroading.
About 1.5 mile south will bring you to Sangerfield. There are two giant agro-businesses there, one on either side of US 20 and Oneida Asphalt, which receives tank cars.
Check out my YouTube channel, "Railroading Rambler," as I have many videos there regarding Utica Branch operations
Last edited by ut-1 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
by JTBernier
Thanks, UT-1... this is extremely helpful. And yes, I've watched all your videos. They were my initial inspiration for using the Utica branch.
by milkman
Thanks for the pics RTF, is all the work done in the Greene, Brisben area?
by Rail Trails Fail
Not too much word on whether it is truly 100%. The intersections look good but I haven't seen where the crews are currently. All signs point to early restart but no official heads up yet from NYS&W itself.
by lackman
UT1:
Your description of current industries is great.
Would you consider adding some additional information?..
1. Wasn't there another business off the main south of the brewery that took cars at one time?
2. You might mention the old Bossert Mfg. plant which took lots of gondolas for scrap metal. Empty lot now.
3. There was the siding for Sheidelmans now pulled up I believe.
4. Isn't there or wasn't there a team track at the station where the line crossed genesee street? I believe JK lumber took cars there.
5. Isn't there a siding, probably not used, by the hobby shop off of French road?
6. Wasn't there a feed mill along route 12 before you got to Waterville? I remember it could take only 1 or 2 cars, and was high up on the hill.
Thinking current customers on the line, and customers who have disappeared within the last 10-20 years?
This is great stuff for the EL Convention if we can do a little more development.
Lackman
Your description of current industries is great.
Would you consider adding some additional information?..
1. Wasn't there another business off the main south of the brewery that took cars at one time?
2. You might mention the old Bossert Mfg. plant which took lots of gondolas for scrap metal. Empty lot now.
3. There was the siding for Sheidelmans now pulled up I believe.
4. Isn't there or wasn't there a team track at the station where the line crossed genesee street? I believe JK lumber took cars there.
5. Isn't there a siding, probably not used, by the hobby shop off of French road?
6. Wasn't there a feed mill along route 12 before you got to Waterville? I remember it could take only 1 or 2 cars, and was high up on the hill.
Thinking current customers on the line, and customers who have disappeared within the last 10-20 years?
This is great stuff for the EL Convention if we can do a little more development.
Lackman
by Cactus Jack
Customer south of the brewery was McCraith (sp?) Beverages that later moved out to the Blue Line and I think now out on the Mills Branch.
McQuade & Bannigan was in that area too.
Along with the Blue Line was the ex-O&W Fay Street line that last served the Fay Street Warehouse and in late EL days Sunset Lumber.
There was a siding that came off the main opposite Scheidelman's and crossed the Route 12 four lane arterial protected by traffic lights, maybe ending in EL days but the track was there until about 1981. If memory serves it was for Tri-State Laundry and was coal delivery.
Scheidlmann's got in carloads of canned goods and the damage claims for this business was astronomical ! That ended in the early '70's as far as I remember.
New Hartford south of the depot was a team track and yes, J.K. Lumber received in-bound lumber there. There were other cars but I don't recall what at the moment. Also at one times was a coal shed for a coal dealer.
Washington Mills Agway was active into 1979-82 era.
Remet was active at Chadwicks into late CR days
The paper mill at Clayville still had a siding and unloading dock into NYSW operation but I do not recall any cars being spotted there in CR days.
IL Richer at the former Latus Mill south of Clayville (the mill on the hill) which was very active into NYSW days and where NYSW staged the ex ADK RS-3 #29 to service it days before they took over the line from CR
Lincoln Davies was getting in-bound lumber on center beam flats into circa 1980-81 at least at Paris Station.
Louis Gale Feed was / is at Waterville
Waterville Agway had a siding used once in a while.
Bouckvile Mills a former NYO&W customer transloaded south of the Waterville freighthouse.
The Waterville team track handled flat cars of machinery (New Holland I think) for the local Waterville or maybe it was a Deansboro based farm equipment dealer.
Sangerfield In EL / CR days and early NYSW:
Blue Seal Feeds was on the north end
Agway Fertlizer south of Route 20
Wickes Lumber - although cars were rare in there by 1982 but the siding was all in well into NYSW days as they stored passenger cars there for a while
Agway was the big elevator on the south side of Route 20
Titan homes was down by Agway and was an intermittent customer. I think the facility burned twice and for a while was closed. Seemed to be a "now and then" switch
North Brookfield was Klings Mill with a stray car into the late 1970's, last car I recall there was a MOW gon of ties circa 1977
Hubbardsville had Jaquay Feed into 1979 and was the reason for the last Conrail train between Sangerfield and Sherburne in November 1979. Seems ther was farm machinery flats spotted there occasionally too. The track was actually a team track with Jaquay's eqpt there - he was a former NYO&W customer in Hamilton. At the end of 1979 Conrail moved him to the West Track in Sherburne.
Earlville - Tri-County Eqpt got in New Holland farm machinery on flats, some of which were multi-consigned cars with eqpt being unloaded at Norwich for Smith and the guy mentioned above in Waterville. Earlbille Agway also got a few cars in Earlville as did Bennett Lumber but not after EL days. Schutte the chicken farmer next to the railroad got in feed in DL&W and early EL days and Baker Chevrolet unloaded cars from box cars on the auto unloading ramp there into at least the late 1950's. The ramp was torn out about 1966. Bill Lamb had a coal dealership there with a siding going to a coal trestle that business lasted until circa 1970.
Colgate University got in white sand and lime for athletic fields and the golf course - there was a small pit on the team track to unload hoppers.
Sherburne
North end was Lily White who made stuff like bandages in the Vietnam war era then not sure what but into CR days box cars were spotted there. The old mill building still stands having been built in Civil war days to make uniforms for the army.
Sherburne IL Richers had a feed mill where the fire department now stands that was there till the mid-90's, Sherburne middle track (now gone) had poles for New York State Electric & Gas, Baillie Lumber and other team track business was done off the West Track, which originally went across the road and served Sherburne Electric in late DL&W days.
Standard Brands had the dog food factory with in-bound raw material on the west side and finished dog food out in EL 69XXX series box cars on the east side (track now gone).
Sherburne Agway had a track, mostly fertilizer I think ..... small covered hoppers.
Probably forgot a bunch of stuff.
* A note about the "O&W" the name usually given the ex NYO&W trackage to New Hartford: This was very busy into mid-late EL days with Doeskin and Sitrue Paper located west of the Route 12 arterial south of the GE (Martin Marietta plant). The last Sitrue cars were in 1971 when the facility closed. Until 1971 to get to the O&W trains came out of Canal Branch down the O&W and in front of the GE plant crossing the Westshore on a diamond. After the EL / PC agreement and reconfiguration the PC served the ex Westshore Mills Branch via Schuyler Street to a connection at the site of the former EL / PC diamond in South Utica where they got on their own tracks to the Mils. The EL also used the WS trackage tearing out the O&W out of Canal Branch and got back on the O&W at the former WS / O&W diamond just north of the Sitrue / Doeskin businesses. This change occurred in about November 1971 and got rid of many crossings on the Westshore from the East Utica area across the City as PC scrapped out that portion of the ex-WS. Into 1981 Conrail ex EL crews did not serve the Mills branch but it was worked by a Travelling Switcher extra of ex NYC / PC guys normally as a UT-95. After about March 1981 everything was combined in the area on the rosters and the ex-EL guys served the Mills line but PC guys got into the ex EL trackage jobs as needed and as qualified. EL equity jobs assignments also covered the Oneida job, Lyons Falls and Little Falls work. The facility at the end of the O&W spur known now as Oneida Warehouse? was Mohawk Containers in late EL and Conrail days and was paper / packing material related with box cars and very busy in the 1970's EL days and into NYSW days. Carparelli Brothers also got in cars, seems like cement hoppers on the tail track south of Mohawk Containers that originally went across Genesee Street in old days (yes and even having a diamond over the double track trolley line to New Hartford). By the 1950's the spur had been cut back to north of Genesee street. I think the Carparelli traffic ended as did the spur stub around the time NYSW took over but it might have lingered on a little longer before being ripped out.
McQuade & Bannigan was in that area too.
Along with the Blue Line was the ex-O&W Fay Street line that last served the Fay Street Warehouse and in late EL days Sunset Lumber.
There was a siding that came off the main opposite Scheidelman's and crossed the Route 12 four lane arterial protected by traffic lights, maybe ending in EL days but the track was there until about 1981. If memory serves it was for Tri-State Laundry and was coal delivery.
Scheidlmann's got in carloads of canned goods and the damage claims for this business was astronomical ! That ended in the early '70's as far as I remember.
New Hartford south of the depot was a team track and yes, J.K. Lumber received in-bound lumber there. There were other cars but I don't recall what at the moment. Also at one times was a coal shed for a coal dealer.
Washington Mills Agway was active into 1979-82 era.
Remet was active at Chadwicks into late CR days
The paper mill at Clayville still had a siding and unloading dock into NYSW operation but I do not recall any cars being spotted there in CR days.
IL Richer at the former Latus Mill south of Clayville (the mill on the hill) which was very active into NYSW days and where NYSW staged the ex ADK RS-3 #29 to service it days before they took over the line from CR
Lincoln Davies was getting in-bound lumber on center beam flats into circa 1980-81 at least at Paris Station.
Louis Gale Feed was / is at Waterville
Waterville Agway had a siding used once in a while.
Bouckvile Mills a former NYO&W customer transloaded south of the Waterville freighthouse.
The Waterville team track handled flat cars of machinery (New Holland I think) for the local Waterville or maybe it was a Deansboro based farm equipment dealer.
Sangerfield In EL / CR days and early NYSW:
Blue Seal Feeds was on the north end
Agway Fertlizer south of Route 20
Wickes Lumber - although cars were rare in there by 1982 but the siding was all in well into NYSW days as they stored passenger cars there for a while
Agway was the big elevator on the south side of Route 20
Titan homes was down by Agway and was an intermittent customer. I think the facility burned twice and for a while was closed. Seemed to be a "now and then" switch
North Brookfield was Klings Mill with a stray car into the late 1970's, last car I recall there was a MOW gon of ties circa 1977
Hubbardsville had Jaquay Feed into 1979 and was the reason for the last Conrail train between Sangerfield and Sherburne in November 1979. Seems ther was farm machinery flats spotted there occasionally too. The track was actually a team track with Jaquay's eqpt there - he was a former NYO&W customer in Hamilton. At the end of 1979 Conrail moved him to the West Track in Sherburne.
Earlville - Tri-County Eqpt got in New Holland farm machinery on flats, some of which were multi-consigned cars with eqpt being unloaded at Norwich for Smith and the guy mentioned above in Waterville. Earlbille Agway also got a few cars in Earlville as did Bennett Lumber but not after EL days. Schutte the chicken farmer next to the railroad got in feed in DL&W and early EL days and Baker Chevrolet unloaded cars from box cars on the auto unloading ramp there into at least the late 1950's. The ramp was torn out about 1966. Bill Lamb had a coal dealership there with a siding going to a coal trestle that business lasted until circa 1970.
Colgate University got in white sand and lime for athletic fields and the golf course - there was a small pit on the team track to unload hoppers.
Sherburne
North end was Lily White who made stuff like bandages in the Vietnam war era then not sure what but into CR days box cars were spotted there. The old mill building still stands having been built in Civil war days to make uniforms for the army.
Sherburne IL Richers had a feed mill where the fire department now stands that was there till the mid-90's, Sherburne middle track (now gone) had poles for New York State Electric & Gas, Baillie Lumber and other team track business was done off the West Track, which originally went across the road and served Sherburne Electric in late DL&W days.
Standard Brands had the dog food factory with in-bound raw material on the west side and finished dog food out in EL 69XXX series box cars on the east side (track now gone).
Sherburne Agway had a track, mostly fertilizer I think ..... small covered hoppers.
Probably forgot a bunch of stuff.
* A note about the "O&W" the name usually given the ex NYO&W trackage to New Hartford: This was very busy into mid-late EL days with Doeskin and Sitrue Paper located west of the Route 12 arterial south of the GE (Martin Marietta plant). The last Sitrue cars were in 1971 when the facility closed. Until 1971 to get to the O&W trains came out of Canal Branch down the O&W and in front of the GE plant crossing the Westshore on a diamond. After the EL / PC agreement and reconfiguration the PC served the ex Westshore Mills Branch via Schuyler Street to a connection at the site of the former EL / PC diamond in South Utica where they got on their own tracks to the Mils. The EL also used the WS trackage tearing out the O&W out of Canal Branch and got back on the O&W at the former WS / O&W diamond just north of the Sitrue / Doeskin businesses. This change occurred in about November 1971 and got rid of many crossings on the Westshore from the East Utica area across the City as PC scrapped out that portion of the ex-WS. Into 1981 Conrail ex EL crews did not serve the Mills branch but it was worked by a Travelling Switcher extra of ex NYC / PC guys normally as a UT-95. After about March 1981 everything was combined in the area on the rosters and the ex-EL guys served the Mills line but PC guys got into the ex EL trackage jobs as needed and as qualified. EL equity jobs assignments also covered the Oneida job, Lyons Falls and Little Falls work. The facility at the end of the O&W spur known now as Oneida Warehouse? was Mohawk Containers in late EL and Conrail days and was paper / packing material related with box cars and very busy in the 1970's EL days and into NYSW days. Carparelli Brothers also got in cars, seems like cement hoppers on the tail track south of Mohawk Containers that originally went across Genesee Street in old days (yes and even having a diamond over the double track trolley line to New Hartford). By the 1950's the spur had been cut back to north of Genesee street. I think the Carparelli traffic ended as did the spur stub around the time NYSW took over but it might have lingered on a little longer before being ripped out.