Type 7 Overhaul Program

Looks like 3658 has entered service.

Just saw on NETransit that 3639, one of the rebuilds in testing, has been "returned for mods". Could they have done something wrong when rebuilding it?

Type 7 3684 wrote:Just saw on NETransit that 3639, one of the rebuilds in testing, has been "returned for mods". Could they have done something wrong when rebuilding it?

Every single one of Alstom's rebuilds has something wrong with them. Something major. The minor problems are no big deal.

So what's the problem specifically with 3639 if you have that information?

Now they are talking about an entire new fleet of cars:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_ ... n_billions

typesix wrote:Now they are talking about an entire new fleet of cars:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_ ... n_billions

There's slides circulated online as parts of yesterday's conference call showing projected retirement dates. The "Type 10" order is primarily a Breda replacement since they have already decided rebuild is not worth it and the only rehab they'll get is an in-house component refresh akin to the commuter rail Bombardier coaches' CRASP program of a few years back. One-and-done for the Type 8's.

The 7's would be replaced on the option side of those orders. So if you're projecting that this won't even hit the 4-year CIP funding document till the FY19-23 edition of the document, and the Bredas are first up...it'll be like 12 years after this current rebuild is done before the Kinki-replacement option orders on the Type 10's arrive on the property. The Kinkis will be pushing 45 years by that point, same age as when the 1980's PCC rebuild program was being done on the Wartimes. At that point the rebuild cycles for continued service start shortening to what it was on the PCC's...once per decade if they intend to run with good state-of-repair in moderate to heavy service, once every 15 if it's good SGR in light service.

Not overkill if you stretch it out to the timeframes this probably is going to have. 7's are awesome cars, but 45 years is probably enough before they either need full replacement or be isolated to Mattapan semi-retirement.


The more interesting part is the dilemma on whether to replace the Red 01800's instead of rebuild. Being first-gen AC motors the parts availability is looking less-than-awesome despite their relatively young age, so it ends up a decision they have to study further on whether it's going to be better Total Cost of Ownership to just keep the Springfield factory hot pumping out a tack-on order to retire them at 25 years or do a rebuild that swaps out some components for stuff that's more common to later-gen heavy rail cars and more sustainable for +15 years more service. TBD because they haven't begun to do the calculations on that. But could indeed end up better value over life-of-vehicle to just not screw around, buy new, and have uniform fleet that uses a mature generation of components.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

typesix wrote:Now they are talking about an entire new fleet of cars:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_ ... n_billions

There's slides circulated online as parts of yesterday's conference call showing projected retirement dates. The "Type 10" order is primarily a Breda replacement since they have already decided rebuild is not worth it and the only rehab they'll get is an in-house component refresh akin to the commuter rail Bombardier coaches' CRASP program of a few years back. One-and-done for the Type 8's.

The 7's would be replaced on the option side of those orders. So if you're projecting that this won't even hit the 4-year CIP funding document till the FY19-23 edition of the document, and the Bredas are first up...it'll be like 12 years after this current rebuild is done before the Kinki-replacement option orders on the Type 10's arrive on the property. The Kinkis will be pushing 45 years by that point, same age as when the 1980's PCC rebuild program was being done on the Wartimes. At that point the rebuild cycles for continued service start shortening to what it was on the PCC's...once per decade if they intend to run with good state-of-repair in moderate to heavy service, once every 15 if it's good SGR in light service.

Not overkill if you stretch it out to the timeframes this probably is going to have. 7's are awesome cars, but 45 years is probably enough before they either need full replacement or be isolated to Mattapan semi-retirement.


The more interesting part is the dilemma on whether to replace the Red 01800's instead of rebuild. Being first-gen AC motors the parts availability is looking less-than-awesome despite their relatively young age, so it ends up a decision they have to study further on whether it's going to be better Total Cost of Ownership to just keep the Springfield factory hot pumping out a tack-on order to retire them at 25 years or do a rebuild that swaps out some components for stuff that's more common to later-gen heavy rail cars and more sustainable for +15 years more service. TBD because they haven't begun to do the calculations on that. But could indeed end up better value over life-of-vehicle to just not screw around, buy new, and have uniform fleet that uses a mature generation of components.

The 01800 trains may not need an extensive overhaul. GE stopped building AC motors by the late 1990's and GTO technology isn't used anymore in new projects. If they wanted to retain the existing AC motors, they could likely just swap the GTO technology out for IGBT and it could be cost effective. Then just do a limited component replacement or refresh and that may be all they need.

We're up to 16 cars in service now.

At 11AM today I passed white shrink wrapped MBTA trolley at the Stockbridge toll booth on the Mass Pike headed east on a double goose neck truck trailer.

typesix wrote:Now they are talking about an entire new fleet of cars:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_ ... n_billions

The CIP has them and the Type 8s slated to be replaced simultaneously by Type 10s by 2020. Obviously, no one really believes that or they wouldn't be going to New York and this thread wouldn't be a thing!

If the 10s do replace both fleets, there will likely be a strong push to get the 7s out first for the sole purpose that they aren't low floor and presumably won't be able to trainline with anything except themselves without 8s. As it is now, 8less trains are frowned upon and sending more than one out consecutively is a sacrilege. They're certainly worthy of a life span similar to what the PCCs endured, but ADA power has prematurely put to pasture a lot of equipment already and I have no reason to believe the 7s will escape that fate, however pleased it would make me if they did.

CRail wrote:

typesix wrote:Now they are talking about an entire new fleet of cars:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_ ... n_billions

The CIP has them and the Type 8s slated to be replaced simultaneously by Type 10s by 2020. Obviously, no one really believes that or they wouldn't be going to New York and this thread wouldn't be a thing!

If the 10s do replace both fleets, there will likely be a strong push to get the 7s out first for the sole purpose that they aren't low floor and presumably won't be able to trainline with anything except themselves without 8s. As it is now, 8less trains are frowned upon and sending more than one out consecutively is a sacrilege. They're certainly worthy of a life span similar to what the PCCs endured, but ADA power has prematurely put to pasture a lot of equipment already and I have no reason to believe the 7s will escape that fate, however pleased it would make me if they did.

The Type 8s will not be overhauled and will be scrapped when the time comes. The 8s were low-bids. Alot of problems come with low-bid products. High repair and parts costs. and This is what happens when you have crooked politicians and their buddies working in MBTA management.

The Type 7s are work-horses and they will (should) stay in service until they rot away.

I'm wondering if the Type 7s will be around as long as the PCCs were around on the Green Line. (40+ years) I hope so, as the cars are very reliable.

I saw 3601 at Riverside a couple of days ago doing some testing.

Passed 3649 today heading west on the Mass Pike heading to Hornell with quite a convoy of escorts.

I saw 3626 testing today on the Riverside Line. I also rode both 3654 and 3628 today and both of the cars had a weird whining noise coming out of the AC.