Trip Report -- Lake Shore Limited/Empire Builder

I recently enjoyed the opportunity to travel from New York to St. Paul Minnesota, and back, on Amtrak, and I thought I would provide the forum with a trip report.

My family (2 adults, and 1 two-year old) boarded the Westbound Lake Shore Limited in the afternoon and readily settled into our Standard Bedroom. Upon boarding the train, the sleeping car attendant informed us that approximately 2/3's of the rooms did not have audio/video or the ability to call the attendant. He offered to move us to a different room if those services were important. We opted to move to a different room, thinking that our child might enjoy the cartoons that are periodically offered on the audio program, but we really didn't care that much.

Our sleeping car (Summer View) was extremely tired, to say the least, but our main concern was privacy and a bed, so it suited our needs. We used the toilet in our room once, in the middle of the night, and it flushed for approximately two hours, but otherwise everything worked reasonably well. (The reading lights in the upper berth were burnt out.) Believe it or not, we had no problem fitting into the room. My wife shared the lower birth with the little one, and I took the upper. I was afraid that we were pushing it, but space did not turn out to be a problem.

Before long, the attendant announced dinner in the dining car. Unfortunately, although we were the second persons to be seated seated, we were the last served due to our table location. Normally, that would not be a problem, but our two-year-old had less patience. I wish the dining car staff had been willing to interrupt their normal service pattern to accomodate our growingly antsy child, but that was not to be. Nevertheless, the food was absolutely outstanding. I had lamb, and my wife had braised beef. Both were absolutely perfect. Dinner over the Mohawk River/Erie Canal at sunset was wonderful.

Upon returning to our room, we realized that we inadvertantly packed all diapers in our checked baggage. Thankfully, the conductor and baggageperson were more than willing to accompany me to the baggage car to locate our luggage.

After changing our little one into pajamas, we went to the lounge car for a short time. The atmosphere in the lounge was less than relaxing, but it afforded the little one an opportunty to release some steam before retiring for the night.

Upon returning to our room, my wife was ready to begin the proccess of singing the little one to sleep. After a few rounds of "You are my sunshine" all was quiet.

The CSX road was very nice. We slept great.

Upon waking, I enjoyed a hot shower while my wife prepared the little one for breakfast. The dining car was announcing last call at 8:30 a.m., which was a little disconcerting. As it turned out, the dining car served breakfast until well after 9:30 a.m., so I wish they had post-poned their last calls a little bit to allow us to get the day started in a little more relaxing fashion.

Breakfast was great. The french toast offering has been restored to the grand railroad tradition. Unfortunately, toast is still not be served with the egg-based breakfast selections -- a real turn off for me, but noone else seemed to mind the bisquit/croissant option. The grits were perfect.

We were approximately 1.5 hours late into CHI. Notwithstanding the delay, Amtrak continued its policy of switching out its freight cars in the yard -- somewhere well beyond Halstead Street. Needless to say, when you are excited to arrive your station, and you are already late, there is nothing worse than being informed that your arrival is being post-poned to switch out some freight cars.

As many know, I am a huge critic of the Lake Shore Limited's westbound schedule, but this time it did allow my family to meet up with a friend and spend some real quality time together. Upon arriving, our friend introduced us to Berg Hoff's for a once-in-a-life-time lunch of authentic German cuisine, home brewed beer, and delightful conversation. On the way to the restaurant, we toured Chicago's magnificant architecture and installation art. The extended layover was absolutely delightful. After lunch, we returned to Union Station and toured the facility. After sharing numerous memories, we bid our farewell and boarded the Empire Builder.

-- To be Continued --

Good to hear the sleeping car attendant was accommodating with your room situation and you had a good experience on the LSL.

Don't worry - you are not the only one critical of the LSL's westbound schedule. i am also - more critical of the westbound than the eastbound schedule.

So much for these Viewliners getting a makeover. This continues to puzzle me.

-- Continuing on --

(A quick note on the Lake Shore Limited's consist and ridership. The train was carrying 5 coaches and three sleeping cars (one on the BOS section, and two on the NYC section). All the coaches were full. I was on the second NYC sleeper. In our car, the deluxe rooms were all sold, but only four (possibly five) standard rooms were sold.)

While in Chicago, I stopped at the ticket counter to inquire about upgrading from coach to some type of bedroom on the Empire Builder between Chicago and St. Paul. The agent informed me that the price would have been $125.00. Because we had such a substantial lunch, I was not sure whether we would be having dinner. Therefore, I could not quite justify the expense. I decided instead to inquire with the Conductor onboard to see if a lower fare might be available then, and if not, to rough it out in coach.

Upon boarding the train, I asked the conductor about upgrading, and he informed me that the sleepers were full. So we took coach seats and enjoyed the trip just fine. The St. Paul coach was completely full. Other coaches throughout the train were considerably less crowded. It is a shame to see all of the wasted space with the unused baggage compartments in the lower levels of many of the coaches.

As with the Lake Shore Limited, the equipment was tired, and quite grimey. I get the impression that Amtrak does not do much more than "tidy" up the equipment between runs. Perhaps I am getting more picky in the old age, but it seemed to me that the train desperately needed a good scrubbing.

Outside of Columbus, we experienced computer problems with one of our two engines. After an extended period of silence, we were informed that the "computer would not reset" so we set out the engine. After about an hour delay with no air, the power came back on and we continued to St. Paul with one engine pulling the entire train. That was quite a site, and the engine seemed to do the job.

Our coach was located towards the rear of the train in the Portland section, so I had the opportunity to walk through the Portland sleeper around Lacrosse, WI. I was amused to observe that there were at least 8 standard rooms available in that sleeper alone. A second walk through the sleeper outside of St. Paul confirmed that the rooms were available for the entire segment.

The operating crew left at lot to be desired. Apart from absense of announcements, the apparent unwillingness to even consider selling upgrades onboard, the crew basically dissapeared for the entire journey.

As it turned out, we did not have dinner in the dining car. I was pleased to see the steward come through the coach taking reservations, and I noticed that they maintained a waiting list for vacancies throughout the scheduled seetings for passengers boarding further up the line. It is always nice to see the dining car staff making attempts to accomodate coach passengers who wish to dine.

We arrived St. Paul 50 minutes late. Again, we were further delayed while Amtrak switched out freight cars, but fortunately the operation did not require the entire train to be brought to a distant yard. Nevertheless, it seemed like half the coach had proceeded to the vestibule, only to learn that they would be standing down there for a period of time. After about 5-10 minutes, we proceeded into the station.

Nevertheless, the journey was nice. The train was reasonably well ridden -- especially the St. Paul Coach. The Wisconsin country side remains as beautiful as always. The lounge car attendant was wonderful.

St. Paul maintains one of the best Amshak's ever built. The station is perfectly maintained, and the station staff are highly professional. Our baggage was unloaded promptly, and we were on our way. I was surprised to see the number of passengers who had checked baggage to pick up, which reaffirmed my long-held opinion as to the importance of offering checked baggage service.

-- to be continued --

sounds like all was good :D

Glad you enjoyed The Berghoff! That is one of my favorite casual eateries when in downtown Chicago. I also will be taking the LSL this summer, however I am beginning in Chicago and only going as far as Syracuse. My wife and I have a deluxe going eastbound, and hope to be able to upgrade our coach seats to a standard for the ride home. I trust the conductor will be forthcoming about the availability of rooms.

Of course, if the diner is already closed by the time we meet the train (8:50 pm per 'schedule'), and the coach seems quiet enough, perhaps we'll just camp out right there.

We are talking about the Portland sleeper. Where in the consist was that sleeper placed, and what was the story in the other sleepers?

mattfels wrote:

Rhinecliff wrote:So much for the Conductor's integrity.

Wow, that's one nasty little cheap shot. We are talking about the Portland sleeper. Where in the consist was that sleeper placed, and what was the story in the other sleepers?

Based on his trip report, it sounds like he was placed in the "local" coach at the rear of the train, behind the Portland sleeper (Consist: Seattle sleeper, diner, Seattle coaches, lounge, Portland coaches, Portland sleeper, local coach - if needed/available).

One thing not clear based on his report is whether or not he specified to the conductor "upon boarding" that he was going to St. Paul.

If he was on board in the local coach, the conductor should have known that he wouldn't be going beyond St. Paul, as that coach is set out there. However, if he was still on the platform, and asked "are there any sleepers available," without specifying destination, the conductor perhaps assumed that he was traveling overnight. The train takes on a good number of passengers in St. Paul, and it is very likely that the Portland sleeper was sold out out of St. Paul.

However, the trip report isn't clear as to exactly how the exchange went about.

Perhaps "integrity" was the wrong word.

The fact is the conductor informed me that he could not sell me a sleeping car accomodation because the sleepers were full, when there was plenty of space to be sold on the Portland Sleeper alone. The Portland Sleeper was the last revenue car in the consist. The St. Paul coach was in front of the Portland Sleeeper. Behind the Portland Sleeper was another coach, which was not being used. The Conduct knew that I was traveling to St. Paul, because he asked me my destination and, and upon my informing him of my desitination and desire to upgrade, he directed me to the St. Paul coach. The conductor was standing a few cars ahead of the St. Paul Coach.

I did not check the Seattle Sleepers, so I can't comment on their occupancy status. But I would be extremely surprised to learn that they were fully occupied. There almost always is a large first-class contingent that boards in St. Paul. (The station maintains a separate first class waiting area, where sleeping car passengers are pre-checked in, and it appeared well occupied when we detrained.)

With all of this said, I agree that the word "integrity" is too strong. Perhaps Mr. Fels could substitute a better word or phrase. If not, I respectfully withdraw the quoted sentence, and I'll allow the Forum's readers to simply draw their own conclusions about the conductor -- good, bad, or otherwise.

-- Continuing On --

After a week in St. Paul, it came time to return to New York.

I telephoned Amtrak's reservation center the night before, and the Eastbound Empire Builder was reported on time out of Minot, so we set the alarms off early. I checked about upgrading to a sleeper and the agent quoted me a fare of $190.00 for a standard. I decided to stick with our coach seats and check again at the station.

I returned to New York with a rather extensive book collection, so our luggage had grown considerably to include three pullmans and three boxes. Fortunately, Amtrak's checked baggage policy is the most generous in the transportation industry. The boxes checked in at about 40 pounds each, and the station staffed checked everything in just fine.

While checking in, I asked about the cost of purchasing a standard bedroom, and the agent quoted me a fare of $96.00. I bought it. By purchasing a standard, we were able to enjoy our last hour with my parents in the first class waiting area without having to worry about standing in line for coach seats.

Upon boarding, the attendant informed us that the room had just been vacated, so he invited us to have breakfast while he put the room in order. Unlike our previous two trains, this time the equipment was reasonably clean. I spotted much less grime in the restrooms of the sleeper and in the lounge car.

Breakfast was excellent. We all had French toast, and it was perfect.

Purchasing a room was a good idea. Our little one slept from about 9 a.m. to 1:00 p.m., allowing mom and dad to enjoy the river scenery from a nearby vacant room. We were in the Portland Sleeper, and there were many standard rooms available.

Our little one woke up just in time for last call lunch. But before leaving, I spotted a couple castaways riding between the vestebule and the roadrailers. I reported them to a crew member on the way to lunch, and before long the train stoped and the crew made their way to the rear of the train. Of course I knew exactly why the train stopped. While seating in the diner, however, I enjoyed listening to a railfan go on and on with great authority as to what was wrong, and how to address the problem. Of course non of it was based on reality. Later the coach attendant thanked me, and he noted that one person was aprehended, and another must have jumped off.

Like breakfast, lunch was excellent. I had the burger, mac and cheese for the little one, and my wife had a chicken sandwich.

We spent a couple hours in the lounge, where another great attendant provided excellent service -- delighting our little one with tatoos and attention. She was a real kick.

We arrived Chicago about 90" late, but just in time to make a nip-and-tuck cross-platform connection with the Capital Limited for those passengers traveling on that train. We were booked on the Lake Shore Limited, so we proceeded to the Metropolitan Lounge to hang out for a little while.

Needless to say, the Metropolitan Lounge in Chicago is as tired out as it can be. But the services offered by the check-in staff are still as usefull as ever. We enjoyed a few minutes at Union Station before boarding the Lake Shore Limited.

-- To be continued --

Rhinecliff wrote:The St. Paul coach was in front of the Portland Sleeeper. Behind the Portland Sleeper was another coach, which was not being used.

Thus there was no reason for any coach passenger to wander back into that car.

I had the opportunity to walk through the Portland sleeper around Lacrosse, WI. . . A second walk through the sleeper outside of St. Paul confirmed that the rooms were available for the entire segment.

"Had" the opportunity? Dear me, another unfortunate choice of words. "Took the opportunity" is more like it. But I digress. First, La Crosse is 2/3 of the way from Chicago to Saint Paul. The train stops 6 times before reaching LSE. If our correspondent feels confident in claiming that those 8 (count 'em!) compartments were vacant over the whole CHI-MSP segment, he must have slunk back there several times over the 281-mile segment from Chicago to La Crosse. So in other words, we're talking

• multiple trips
• to a car you have no business entering
• to check which compartments are occupied and which aren't
• carefully enough to make an exact count of supposedly vacant compartments

How creepy is that?
I'll bet the passengers TICKETED in the Portland sleeper were a bit less than thrilled about all this skulduggery.

Speaking of vacant sleepers, we'll talk later about the commandeering of a vacant compartment on the return trip. Meanwhile, here's the quote of the week:

I enjoyed listening to a railfan go on and on with great authority as to what was wrong, and how to address the problem. Of course none of it was based on reality.

My trip report appears to be proving difficult for Mr. Fels. This was not my intent. I readily recognized that my choice of the word "integrity" was too strong when Mr. Fels pointed it out. As far as my two trips to the Portland sleeper were concrerned, there was nothing creepy about them. Both times was to explore the train with my two-year-old, who likes to walk the trains from front to back (although we generally do not go through or beyond the dining car because we do not wish to disturb that operation -- that is why we did not see the Seattle sleepers). Also, I was curious if the last car on the train was in use. (You know us railfans, Mr. Fels, we like to check out the consists.) Finally, on the return, our use of an unoccupied room was done with the full awareness and consent of the attendant. In fact, we spent a consiberable amount of time vistiting with him.

-- Continuing On --

The boarding process for the Lake Shore Limited was chaotic. The escort from the Metropolitan Lounge took a group to the train about 15" earlier than had been advised at check in. In so doing, some people were caught off guard. It was not problem for me, and I was impressed that boarding was starting so early. Then the escort took us through the train by cutting through the coach boarding area, giving the coach passengers the idea that general boarding had begun. At which point they started to follow, only to be berated by another usher that was staffing the coach area.

Once onboard, however, the trip was a complete delight. Over the years, my entire extended family has befriended a wonderful sleeping car attendant. This guy is so exceptional that he has earned the employee of the year award. He has been working the Lake Shore for over a decade, so if anyone wants the experience sleeping car service at its finest, the place to look is on the Lake Shore.

Like the way out, the sleeping car was extremely tired. This time, the corridor was shielded only by the thin curtains that have been discussed on this forum. As others have complained, they really do not block out the light. Nevertheless, I could not help but to notice that each of the rooms was perfectly prepared for occupancy. (I trust Mr. Fels will not find this comment too creepy.)

The attendent immediately welcomed everyone onboard and informed us that due to the large number of "little ones" traveling that evening, he was going to make the first dining car seating as accessable to families as possible. He also informed everyone that unless they chose otherwise, he would make up their rooms while they were having dinner. (On the Westbound, the attendant dissappeared during that period of time, and the relatively few passengers that were traveling in my car that night had to make up their own rooms.)

Once again, dinner was outstanding. I simply cannot say enough for Amtrak's dining car service. In each case throughout the trip, the food was out of this world. The service never quite matched the quality of the food, but no complaints whatsoever. I had Risoto Del Mar (the Del Mar consisting of lobster, shrimp, and scallops). I forget my wife's entree. The little one had the always reliable mac and cheese. The poor individual that was assigned to dine with us was a great sport, and for that I purchased his bottle of wine.

After we returned from dinner, our room was all made up as promised, and we settled in for the evening.

The Norfolk and Sourthern road was outragiously rough. I have seen a lot of bad road, and this rivaled anything I have ever witnessed. Interstingly, I noticed that this time I was sleeping feet forward. I don't know if that had anything to do with it.

We received our wake up call right on time in the morning. The attendant seeing that the little one was still sound asleep, and that my wife was in a similar state, offered to bring my wife breakfast in bed. (I had already showered, so I opted to go to the dining car.) Upon my return, I noticed that the attendant had also set up my wife's breakfast in a vacant standard to avoid waking the little one.

We were running about 2 hours late. After breakfast, the attendant made up our room, and we had fun with a nearby family that was also traveling with small children. On more than one occassion, the attendant went out of his way to assist everyone with one thing or another.

Somewhere near Utica, however, the dining car announced that they would be serving a quick lunch and then closing for the duration of the trip. They also informed everyone that upon arrival in Schenectady, there would be no further food service available to the passengers on the New York section because the lounge would close at Schenectady and would not reopen until leaving Albany on the Boston section. I cannot believe that Amtrak thinks it can operate the New York section from Schenectady to New York with no food service, but this is how bad things have gotten. Nevertheless, we grabbed our quick lunch and had no real complaints. I don't know what, if anything, is done for the coach passengers.

In all, however, our trip on the eastbound Lake Shore was the best part of our trip -- thanks in large part to a sleeping car attendant who is a treasure. Upon arriving, we claimed our bags with no difficulty, bring to and end a great journey. Needless to say, our gratuity to the sleeping car attendant matched our appreciation for his service.

Rhinecliff wrote:My trip report appears to be proving difficult for Mr. Fels.

What? This trip report is quite easy to understand. Our story so far:

1. "Rhinecliff" passed through the car at La Crosse to walk the train once with the 2-year-old. Fine. What explains the second trip through?
2. "Rhinecliff claims to have counted EIGHT vacant compartments. But how to be sure? The Builder is scheduled into La Crosse at 7:11 p.m. You know, dinnertime. Maybe some of those supposedly vacant compartments were occupied with passengers who were, like, having dinner. Because sleepers don't have seat tags, the only way to tell if one is "taken" is to peer inside and look for personal belongings. And once again, how creepy is that?
3. The specificity of the number is what I find puzzling. Why count them? Why such attention to detail?
4. Back to La Crosse. "Rhinecliff" claims (at least for now) that his first trip back to the Portland sleeper was around La Crosse. That's about five hours into the trip. Without additional visits between Chicago and La Crosse, there's no way of knowing with certainty that EIGHT SLEEPERS were vacant for the whole CHI-MSP segment. A day sleeper makes a nice way to get from Chicago to the Dells, or from Milwaukee to La Crosse.

Upshot: Either "Rhinecliff" made more trips than he's admitting to, or he's making a claim he can't back up.

Rhinecliff wrote:You know us railfans

Indeed.

In one last attempt to satisfy Mr. Fels' scrutinty, which I generally appreciate, I will attempt to answer his questions in the order he raises them.

First, both of my walks through the sleeping car (and there were only two of them) were part and parcel of a longer walk with my two-year-old. (I thought this was clear from my earlier post.)

Second, I never "peered" into any room. I simply noted standard rooms which appeared empty -- basing the judgment on the fact that the doors were open and pillows undisturbed. Perhaps, as Mr. Fels notes, the occupants of some or all of the rooms could have been having dinner, each leaving the door open, pillows undisturbed, and no other obvious evidence of having occupied the room.

Third, my reason for counting was because I was surprised at how unoccupied the sleeper appeared after having been informed that all of the sleepers were sold out.

Fourth, it is certainly possible that every room was sold for some portion of the journey between Chicago and St. Paul. But it is by no means likely. (To be sure, I cannot state with certainty that there were exactly eight vacant rooms between Chicago and St. Paul.) What seems more likely to me is that the conducter simply did not want to be bothered with an onboard upgrade.

But if Mr. Fels wants to believe that the sleeper was sold out (or close to sold out) and the conducter was really being straight with me, that's fine. Maybe he is right.

In one last attempt to satisfy Mr. Fels' scrutinty....

I predict you will fail at this attempt.

Rhinecliff wrote:First, both of my walks through the sleeping car (and there were only two of them) were part and parcel of a longer walk with my two-year-old.

I don't expect a 2-year-old to know that a sleeper is off limits to coach passengers, but I do expect a railfan to know the rule--and a grownup to comply with it. When the first walk establishes that there's no reason to pass through the car a second time, there's no excuse for a second trip under any non-emergency circumstance. Let alone the desire to peer into compartments and count the ones that appear vacant.

Mr. Fels,

You are right again. I should have stated: "Each of my two walks which included the Portland sleeper was part and parcel with a larger walk with my two-year-old." In fact, there were several other walks, but the others did not include the sleeper. Most were simply to and from the lounge. Please make the appropriate substitute.

Anything else?