TRAVEL ALERT... I just didn't know!

At 2:00pm Sunday, with a foot of snow on the ground, SEPTA posted this informative notice on their web site:

Due to weather conditions expect major delays on all SEPTA routes.

Does anyone think they could do just a little bit better?

KYW's web site has traffic and transit info. At 9:00 AM they had info on delays of 25 minutes, then by 11:00 Am it was 1 hour delays. At about 9:30 The Route 100 trolley had stopped running past Radnor, and by 11:00 AM service was discontinued on that line completely.

Beats a "service canceled" announcement, which popped up on LIRR today.

1:01 PM:

Delays up to one hour: ON ALL SERVICES INCL BUSES AND REGIONAL RAIL, SEPTA: RT 100 NORRISTOWN . IS SUSPENDED. CCT IS ONLY RUNNING FOR WORK AND MEDICAL RELATED PASSENGERS :: PATCO - NO PROBLEMS TO REPORT :: NJ TRANSIT WILL BE SUSPENDING BUS SERVICE AT 7:30

westernfalls wrote: Does anyone think they could do just a little bit better?

Yes, they could and should do better. Even worse, before noon, they didn't have any info on their website. At the very least they should ballpark the delays (eg. "RRD delays of 30-60mins"). I was planning on taking the train and would have liked to know if I should catch an earlier one to make up for any delay. I realize that with such a widespread disruption we can't expect detailed info on each route.

Lucius Kwok wrote:KYW's web site has traffic and transit info.

AFAIK, the "transit info" on KYW's website is limted to links to various transit websites. Not very helpful when SEPTA has no info up.

Earlier they didn't have anything--probably because it's a Sunday.

Meanwhile, things are really bad up in New York, where they've had two feet of snow. But both NJ Transit and MTA are doing an excellent job reporting on weather disruptions. NJT is reporting line-by-line cancellations on the rail side, and all bus service is down. LIRR is reporting some specific trains that are badly delayed, and Metro-North is reporting that their service is halved on the Harlem and NH lines, including real-time info on when the next trains will depart on the Harlem Branch.

Shutting down the 100 yet again is just another example of SEPTA's ineptitude. Under Red Arrow management that line ran through almost every imaginable kind of weather, except when storms knocked out power or sent trees across the tracks. But SEPTA, in its efforts to save money, got rid of most of the line's snow removal equipment. Now when flakes go above the 3rd rail all they can do is close down. In fact, the first few N-5s weren't even equipped with sanders and got stuck on the grade from 69th St. to the T8 signal as soon as any snow started.

The problem goes back at least 10 years - there was a major blizzard in '95 or '96 that shut the line down for nearly two weeks. SEPTA's response to their lack of plows was to send crews out with shovels and brooms to clear the line by hand. And as if that wasn't boneheaded enough, I got ahold of an internal newsletter praising everyone for their efforts ... shades of their Live 8 idiocy. I wrote to several local and state officials asking them to investigate what was going on. Of course, nothing whatsoever happened.

How hard would it be to fit a snowplow in front of one of those N-5s? We only got 11 inches of snow in Radnor, with some drifts up to 24 inches high. Also, a pair of those heavy N-5s should have no problem in the ice and snow.

You got it. Shouldn't be hard at all. Or maybe convert one of the old CTAs into a plow car. After all, they ran for decades in a place where snow isn't exactly something unexpected.

Wasn't there supposed to have been a settlement with ABB or Bombardier that would have given SEPTA some kind of eqpt for the 100? IIRC they were supposed to have received either a dedicated snow car or a diesel loco - anyone remember?

JeffK wrote:Wasn't there supposed to have been a settlement with ABB or Bombardier that would have given SEPTA some kind of eqpt for the 100? IIRC they were supposed to have received either a dedicated snow car or a diesel loco - anyone remember?

The settlement on the N5 cars was an electric locomotive, now 2308. The settlement on the M4 cars was the signal system for the subway-surface lines.

Operation of trolleys on Route 15 has also been suspended with buses "temporarily" providing service. From what an operator told me (who was donning a TWU hat---isn't that a dresscode violation?), a trolley got stuck around 7th-Girard last night, and wasn't rescued until Sunday afternoon. There was also a alleged problem with the overhead. As of this writing, buses continue to provide all service on Route 15.

This morning New Flyers were being substituted for the articulated Neoplans on Route 60. A wise move.

And to think I was fooled into thinking rail was superior to bus in the snow.

Maybe some of you rail guys could chime in and explain why trains run horribly slow in the snow. I witnessed a train on the former RDG NY branch at Forrest Hills poking along at about 20mph between Forrest Hills and Somerton. Trains inbound to CC on the West Trenton and Warminster line were also behind schedule. I was surprised to see inbound on Warminster running late. I guess 50 minutes recovery time isn't enough to make up for whatever delays were going on today.

jfrey40535 wrote:Operation of trolleys on Route 15 has also been suspended with buses "temporarily" providing service. From what an operator told me (who was donning a TWU hat---isn't that a dresscode violation?), a trolley got stuck around 7th-Girard last night, and wasn't rescued until Sunday afternoon. There was also a alleged problem with the overhead. As of this writing, buses continue to provide all service on Route 15.

This morning New Flyers were being substituted for the articulated Neoplans on Route 60. A wise move.

And to think I was fooled into thinking rail was superior to bus in the snow.

Maybe some of you rail guys could chime in and explain why trains run horribly slow in the snow. I witnessed a train on the former RDG NY branch at Forrest Hills poking along at about 20mph between Forrest Hills and Somerton. Trains inbound to CC on the West Trenton and Warminster line were also behind schedule. I was surprised to see inbound on Warminster running late. I guess 50 minutes recovery time isn't enough to make up for whatever delays were going on today.

During inclement weather, the Silverliners are prone to all kinds of traction power problems. Reduced Ground Relay (RGR) and Ground Relay (GR) circuit trips considerably reduce the trains acceleration and braking effort. Also, snow really gets caught up in the brake rigging on the Silverliners which causes the trains to stop a little longer than the engineer may intend them to; therefore, you may see engineers brake earlier and come into stations slower during heavy snowfall accumulation.

you may see engineers brake earlier and come into stations slower during heavy snowfall accumulation.

...or glide right on by....

Thanks for the explanation, whovian. I believe the Ground Relay circuits perform a function similar to the ground-fault current interruptors in residential electric wiring. The manual I have says that when it trips, it cuts out certain handle positions, which limits the acceleration and top speed.

The R5 Paoli-Thorndale trains were running up to 20 minutes late this morning. I went out to the R5 tracks and saw that the #3 track hasn't been used in the past 24 hours, with snow still on the rails. The other tracks looked fine. I saw that the switch points at Bryn Mawr were free of snow and ice.

A 6-car R5 to Doylestown (according to its sign) pulled into Radnor station at about 11:05 am, which was unusual for the time (20 minutes late?) and the length of the train. The next train came at the normal time (about 10 minutes later) and was a 2-car train.

I wonder what happened to the Route 100 yesterday. Today, the tracks look fine and the switch points at Bryn Mawr are cleared. A report on what happened would help to prepare for the next time it snows and to decide on what warnings to issue or cancellations will happen instead of hearing about it on KYW after something gets stuck. Imagine what it would be like if the snow came down today during the afternoon peak.

JeffK wrote:Shutting down the 100 yet again is just another example of SEPTA's ineptitude. Under Red Arrow management that line ran through almost every imaginable kind of weather, except when storms knocked out power or sent trees across the tracks. But SEPTA, in its efforts to save money, got rid of most of the line's snow removal equipment. Now when flakes go above the 3rd rail all they can do is close down. In fact, the first few N-5s weren't even equipped with sanders and got stuck on the grade from 69th St. to the T8 signal as soon as any snow started.

The problem goes back at least 10 years - there was a major blizzard in '95 or '96 that shut the line down for nearly two weeks. SEPTA's response to their lack of plows was to send crews out with shovels and brooms to clear the line by hand. And as if that wasn't boneheaded enough, I got ahold of an internal newsletter praising everyone for their efforts ... shades of their Live 8 idiocy. I wrote to several local and state officials asking them to investigate what was going on. Of course, nothing whatsoever happened.

This just shows you how times have changed--- I remember a major snow storm back in 1966. While bus service on the Red Arrow & PTC was suspended rather early in the storm, and stayed suspended for a couple of days, the rail lines, including city streetcar routes, the PRR & Reading commuter lines, the Red Arrow Trolleys-- and the P&W, and the rapid transit lines were the last to suspend service and were the first to resume. Seems that something has been lost here.