Transit Strike Modified Regional Rail Schedules

I should note Broad & Lehigh is improving. A warehouse on the one corner is being renovated into something.

could be lofts. the old divine lorane hotel is being converted into condos as real estate speculators are realizing that North Broad is closer to Center City than "port Fishington".

Kevikens: WHOVIAN didn't say anything about people being dead, retired, or moved on; I believe that was SILVERLINER II's quote. As far as public hearings, there are other alternatives as well. One can't use I had to work as an excuse, I'm sorry. I am an innercity resident too, and I'm certainly not rich or a suburbanite. I also realize that if one is not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. I don't deplore any of the CIVIC skills of the working class given that I'm also a member of the WORKING ClASS. People have to empower themselves. WORKING class folks pay taxes too. Ask questions, make phone calls, write letters, get petitions. It's not like SEPTA arbitrarily said "hey let's close all those stations in those poor neighborhoods." PEOPLE WEREN'T USING THE SERVICE. I think that if there were a sincere interest in reopening those station it should have manifested itself, somehow. IT HAS NOT. I'm not a supporter of depriving anyone any service because of their income. I guess its a legitimate excuse to say, ' I didn't vote because I had to work' also. People, what ever their station, have to empower themselves if someone (SEPTA) doesn't do it for them. Isn't that how America sort of came about? SEPTA tried severaly times to shut CYNWYD service out completely. Those residents, most of which live in Philly, fought that to their advantage; hence, the service still operates, even though its ONE car. I know that they are a little better off than most, but that is besides the point.

If many of these inner-city stations had retained their ridership, perhaps there would not have been so many closings. And in many cases, people abandoned those stations in favor of more frequent bus/subway/el service (examples have been provided above).

We're lucky North Broad station survived as it is....that station was not to have been restored with Railworks. Vocal protests at the public hearings were a key to preventing the closing.

Nowadays, the trains are full anyway when they arrive at where these inner stations were located....what few riders they generated would have ended up standing anyway.

And lest we forget, there have been some suburban stations closed too. Besides Lamokin, does anyone remember Fellwick? Andalusia? Let me go back even further, and add Trainer to the list.

Despite the city representing the bulk of the ridership and the bulk of the SEPTA subsidy, the suburbs have actually suffered more from service cuts overall than the city has. Most late-night service in the suburbs that existed prior to cuts in the early 1990's is gone. Entire rail lines have been eliminated. It's been painful for city and suburbs alike.

And the next time fare increseas are proposed, bear in mind that SEPTA fares are still cheaper in the long run than some other cities, despite our high base fare (no longer the highest in the nation, btw).

While I'm ranting here.....if SEPTA would better educate the ridership it serves when it comes to fares, more people would save more money by purchasing weekly and monthly passes and/or tokens. There's no reason for anyone to pay $2 for a $1.30 token. And then you have flexibility with the passes.

But enough from me.......for now......

whovian wrote:Kevikens: WHOVIAN didn't say anything about people being dead, retired, or moved on; I believe that was SILVERLINER II's quote.

Yes, that was my quote. And note I did say many, or most, not ALL. And, it is partly true just from the years of visual observation and counts I made in my job as a SEPTA traffic checker during the 1990's. I've seen it on all modes. I've seen ridership on some lines that once required 2 pages per trip during the midday drop to single sheets for the same time of day, and most of the missing riders had been older.

Simple attrition in certain areas, combined with younger people simply buying more cars (whether they can afford them or not, we all know about the high rate of uninsured unregistered vehicles out there) is not helping ridership either.

Either they're gonna have very few riders per day, in which case it's hard to justify the maintenance and other operating costs for the station, or they're gonna have more riders (1 or two per train), in which case the slowdown to make the stop costs you more riders than you gain.

Bologna. I just read the modified R7 Stike schedule. If there is a strike, I will be taking train #9720 in everyday. Holmes and Bridesburg were added on this train which normally expresses past these stations.

Guess what??? The depart time from Trenton and arrive time at Suburban are the SAME. Kind of shoots a hole in the "slowdown" argument.

jfrey40535 wrote:I just read the modified R7 Stike schedule. If there is a strike, I will be taking train #9720 in everyday. Holmes and Bridesburg were added on this train which normally expresses past these stations.

Guess what??? The depart time from Trenton and arrive time at Suburban are the SAME. Kind of shoots a hole in the "slowdown" argument.

I wouldn't put much stock in those scheduled arrive times--everything's gonna be late as a result of the increased travel.

it's gonna be Live 8 all over again just 3 times worse.

on a side note I just got finished pissing away $34.50 for a zone 3 pass. I usually just buy a regular transpass to travel for the week and just pay the suburban zone charges on transit. Now I have to take RRD all over the place. At least the Zone 3 pass has anywhere privileges off peak.

Silverliner II wrote:And lest we forget, there have been some suburban stations closed too. Besides Lamokin, does anyone remember Fellwick? Andalusia? Let me go back even further, and add Trainer to the list.

And you can add West Chester, Fox Chase-Newtown, everything north of Lansdale, and everything west of Norristown. OK, not 100% SEPTA's fault, but gone nonetheless.

if SEPTA would better educate the ridership it serves when it comes to fares, more people would save more money by purchasing weekly and monthly passes and/or tokens. There's no reason for anyone to pay $2 for a $1.30 token.

Actually there is... some of the drones at 1234 are convinced that it's easier to use the "sucker" fares as a way of raising extra revenue from newbies, tourists, and commuters who are miles from a sales outlet, vs. attracting more riders and/or reforming the fare system. Not just a wild suspicion on my part - confirmed by discussions with employees on several occasions.

That's why there is no token machines at 5th Street on the MFL. Get those out of town suckers. Its a disgrace that the rest of the non-subway stations have no token machines either, and the cashiers have signs up saying "no tokens, no passes, no change". So what's their purpose? Why are they called "Cashiers? (Dont answer this one).

An even bigger disgrace is that I have to lug around a pocket full of tokens. Who else uses tokens in this country?

Interesting arguments about the tokens. I was in Philly back in August, and I wanted to get some tokens to take the bus where the subway, trolley, regional rail does not go. My hotel was near City Hall. Sure enough, I go to a window near the turnstiles, and the person tells me that they don't sell tokens at that window, that I need to go somewhere else. I'm thinking, why are you here then? As an out of towner, I also, like everyone else, have trouble figuring out their byzantine fare structure. Looking back on my trip, even with me buying two-packs, I could have probably saved money with some sort of pass.

Does SEPTA have anything on the books for electronic fare collection? MetroCard has been wonderful up here in NYC, on both bus and subway. Where is SEPTA?

Concerning station quality. Some of them don't even have good signage. I took the R6 on my trip for the first time, and barely realized that I had arrived at the Norristown TC.

jfrey40535 wrote:An even bigger disgrace is that I have to lug around a pocket full of tokens. Who else uses tokens in this country?

Now that New York has gone MetroCard, we're the last in the country to use tokens. Even Pittsburgh uses single-ride "zone tickets" that would be equivelant to tokens here...you slide them into the dollar slots on the fareboxes on the buses and trolleys there.

Toronto still uses tokens, but that's Canada, not here.....

Tokens do have one saving grace in that they are reused (i hope) and therefore generate little waste.

PARailWiz wrote:Tokens do have one saving grace in that they are reused (i hope) and therefore generate little waste.

Well the cost may be a wash, since you have to collect, count, and repackage tokens.

Tickets have gotten cheaper since the state of the art is now to print tickets on demand (see NJ Transit for example) rather than having to buy and stock preprinted tickets as SEPTA does for the RRD. Your operating costs are for rolls of blank ticket stock (which may include a magnetic stripe) and ink.

A stored value card is even cheaper to operate, since all the transactions are handled electronically. The catch, of course, is capital cost.

Silverliner II wrote:

jfrey40535 wrote:An even bigger disgrace is that I have to lug around a pocket full of tokens. Who else uses tokens in this country?

Now that New York has gone MetroCard, we're the last in the country to use tokens. Even Pittsburgh uses single-ride "zone tickets" that would be equivelant to tokens here...you slide them into the dollar slots on the fareboxes on the buses and trolleys there.

Toronto still uses tokens, but that's Canada, not here.....

Yeah, looks like Philly will win the race to be the last token user. Boston still has tons (probably literally) in use as only one subway line has been converted so far to AFC.

I believe that some newer systmes like Miami and Atlanta may actually use tokens of some form.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:Tickets have gotten cheaper since the state of the art is now to print tickets on demand (see NJ Transit for example) rather than having to buy and stock preprinted tickets as SEPTA does for the RRD. Your operating costs are for rolls of blank ticket stock (which may include a magnetic stripe) and ink.

And I continually wish SEPTA would switch to a ticket system similar to NJT for the RRD. You get your ticket for specific station and time of day (peak vs. off-peak), and save money for the reasons quoted above. And it would make TVM use easier, as you don't have to memorize what zone your station is in...you just look up your station, punch in the cold, and voila!