The East Side Access Project Discussion (ESA)

geico wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 5:57 pm

lpetrich wrote: ↑Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:18 pm From a week ago: Faulty fan holding up opening of $11B LIRR terminal at Grand Central - New York Post - December 21, 2022

A single, “underperforming” fan could upend plans to open the long-delayed, $11.6 billion Long Island Railroad terminal beneath Grand Central, the MTA said Wednesday.

“That is literally the only thing that is keeping us from opening at this point,” MTA CEO Janno Lieber told reporters after breaking the news at the authority’s monthly board meeting.

“An $11 billion project is depending on that fan — or that series of ducts — pulling enough air to satisfy the code standard.”

No follow-up that I could find, and I could find nothing on that in MTA's site.

I think that if LIRR's Grand Central Direct service opens this year, it will open December 31. That is a Saturday, a common day of the week for opening rail-system extensions.

Nope... apparently now its several things..... can we say total mess.... clu***r f**k
Opening date January (notice they didnt say what year....)

It's far from a total mess. It could be worse, it could be delayed for a year or more!

I understand that a Western Bypass track a little more than a half mile long has been placed in service for DC ELECTRIC operation only. This is at Harold. Anyone have additional info,
Andy

So what's the latest updates? Any word on food vendors?

Tomorrow January 11th, the railroad is operating a practice run, simulating the Grand Central Direct shuttle service. Trains will make simulated stops (doors will not open and receive passengers). If all goes well, revenue service will commence shortly thereafter (possibly Martin Luther King Jr. Day on 1/16/23, but not confirmed).


There will be 20 westbounds and 20 eastbounds. If the simulated shuttle service tomorrow indicates what the Grand Central Direct service will be, remains to be seen. There is a mix of locals and express trains.

The first test train would be Train 9001.

9001
Jamaica 617am
Woodside 627am
Grand Central Madison 638am

Westbound departures from Jamaica at 617,715,816,917,950,1017,1045,1115,1145,1215,1245,115,145,221,245,316,349,416,447,520

Eastbound departures from Grand Central Madison
811,839,915,955,1033,1059,1133,1159,1233,1259,129,159,229,258,328,357,428,519,623,717

Heaven help the poor soul working Harold desk at PSCC. Watch those arrows y'all!

Oh right; west of Woodside in Harold Interlocking is Amtrak, not LIRR. So governed by PSCC, not LIRR's JCC. ...........Arrows?

I've checked the app a couple times for tickets; still not for sale. However, you will be able to purchase a single ticket for a direct connection MNRR-LIRR.

The first couple of test trains were canceled this morning. A broken rail was discovered in east river tunnel Line 3, just prior to the morning rush. That led to some congestion and trains being diverted. So, it was put on pause for a little bit.


The test trains started running with train 9007, leaving Jamaica 917am, and arriving in Grand Central 940am.
9007's Schedule
Jamaica 917am
Woodside 927am
Grand Central Madison 938am




From what I can see...

- The trains have been mostly 8 car consists.
- Utilizing Tracks 4/5 in Jamaica
- Utilizing the Lower Level in Grand Central Madison




To answer an earlier question regarding arrows... There are white arrows affixed to a select number of signals. Eastbound, a white arrow displayed on a signal will indicate the train is routed for the Port Washington Branch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRjTlle9PmI&t=473s

At 7:53 of that video, you'll see the white arrow. Here's a screenshot.




All 4 of those signals on 20 Bridge in Harold Interlocking would display a white arrow if the train is routed for Port Washington No. 2 track. This is done to help prevent a train being routed incorrectly. Eastbound on 21 Bridge, you'll find a white arrow on Port Washington No 1 track as well. There is no white arrow (coming soon maybe?) on the westbound bypass track for eastbound moves on 21 Bridge. You could be routed from Westbound Bypass to Port Washington No 1 track, so maybe they haven't gotten to that yet. It's a newly installed track.


Going westbound, white arrows are displayed for trains lined for the Grand Central Branch. Again, to help prevent a train being routed incorrectly. I believe there are 16 white arrows that can be displayed for westbound trains going to Grand Central Madison.

I think it's unfortunate that they didn't go with the MN arrangement, as at Woodlawn, where an arrow is always displayed: vertical for Harlem, horizontal pointing to the right for New Haven, thus always displaying a positive indication one way or the other. At Harold, it seems that if the route is lined for Grand Central and the arrow fails and is dark, an engineer of a Grand Central train is going to stop and call the dispatcher for instructions, thus delaying whatever is behind him. And if a route is mistakenly lined for Grand Central and the arrow fails, the engineer of a Penn Station train will be expecting the arrow to be dark and may be going too fast to stop when he sees where he's headed; if he has a consist that won't clear the 63rd St. tunnel and can't stop in time it will mess up more than one day's rush hour.

Well wouldn't that be a perfect storm??!! LOL I agree. If arrows are going to be used to supplement the "speed signal" aspects then it would be best to have the route shown continuously.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:08 pm I think it's unfortunate that they didn't go with the MN arrangement, as at Woodlawn, where an arrow is always displayed: vertical for Harlem, horizontal pointing to the right for New Haven, thus always displaying a positive indication one way or the other. At Harold, it seems that if the route is lined for Grand Central and the arrow fails and is dark, an engineer of a Grand Central train is going to stop and call the dispatcher for instructions, thus delaying whatever is behind him. And if a route is mistakenly lined for Grand Central and the arrow fails, the engineer of a Penn Station train will be expecting the arrow to be dark and may be going too fast to stop when he sees where he's headed; if he has a consist that won't clear the 63rd St. tunnel and can't stop in time it will mess up more than one day's rush hour.

They won't get to the 63rd street tunnel without realizing they don't belong. The only equipment that doesn't physically fit is the diesel fleet, and it will fit in all the approach tunnels.
If the Engineer doesn't realize it by then, its perhaps time to turn in his/her green card.
Even still, once they enter the ESA territory, the ASC will drop to a 15 code slowing them down a bit.

Gothamist had an article saying that the exhaust fan issue will likely delay opening until February at a minimum. By that time the signal issue should be resolved.

BuddR32 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:46 pm They won't get to the 63rd street tunnel without realizing they don't belong. The only equipment that doesn't physically fit is the diesel fleet, and it will fit in all the approach tunnels.
If the Engineer doesn't realize it by then, its perhaps time to turn in his/her green card.
Even still, once they enter the ESA territory, the ASC will drop to a 15 code slowing them down a bit.

Even so, he'll still have to backtrack to Harold to get pointed the right way, tying up the whole rush hour in the process. The whole point of the arrows is to prevent that from happening.

You'll receive 3 white arrows going to Grand Central via Tunnel A or B/C. Westward moves into tunnel D will receive 2 white arrows. The first one is at 30 Bridge at Woodside. I've never heard of a "white arrow failure". Maybe someone here can chime in if they have...

So having 2 or 3 white arrows malfunction at the same time would be pretty rare.

I was on a NH Line train at Woodlawn that was lined up for White Plains. It wasn't an arrow failure, though, just an error on dispatch. The MNRR arrows are a good distance out from Woodlawn though; no backup maneuver was required. The situation for ESA is different, though. Are there no cab signals that would indicate routing?