Southwest Chief on the Ground in MO

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:28 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:50 am Anyone care to "place their bets"?

Maximum Authorized train speed anywhere in the US away from the NE Corridor; 70mph

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:07 am You know that's not true, Mr. Norman. What are you quoting?

Mr. Trainguy, "place your bets".

This just seems the next extension of the 1952 mandate of "a speed not to exceed 80mph", which Rulebook took to mean 79mph.

That mandate apparently arose from Naperville

I believe ATSF was running at 90 mph in that territory prior to Naperville and installed Automatic Train Stop in compliance with the ICC regulation when it was imposed; to get the Super Chief from Chicago to LA in 39 3/4 hours they needed to do 90 wherever possible. I'm sure ATS is still in service there today, and #4 has been reported as doing 89, and 87 at the moment of impact.

I looked at an older (2010) BNSF ETT. The mainline from Fort Madison to Carrollton, ~150 miles, is rated for 90 mph. Mendon MO is inside the Marceline subdivision of the Chicago Division (at the time).

Striker Red Wolf found this…

https://www.kctv5.com/2022/07/01/train- ... ump-truck/

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:39 amStriker Red Wolf found this…

https://www.kctv5.com/2022/07/01/train- ... ump-truck/

Based on the allegations in the law suit, Amtrak and BNSF are claiming the truck did not stop for the crossing. They also claim that the truck did not have sufficient ground clearance for the crossing and that the driver was using an electronic wireless communications device. They also claim the truck was moving too fast to stop at the crossing.

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:39 am Striker Red Wolf found this…

https://www.kctv5.com/2022/07/01/train- ... ump-truck/

(The STrRedWolf is short for “STriker RedWolf” and the reason for the “ST” is not train nor fandom related)

Back to the accident, I think just from news reporting itself, there’s no need to speculate: The train hit a dump truck that shouldn’t of been there. There just need a pool to get the various legal papers out from the courts over the lawsuit.

To me it would seem that some of the stuff Amtrak and BNSF are claiming hasn’t been proven yet.

Maybe they’ll release the on board video from the cab following completion of the investigation?

We will see what we see when the NTSB releases its report.

From the attaches story about the lawsuit, I've never seen such language (I'm not an attorney, just married to a retired attorney) - "pray for judgment ". That got my attention.

Earlier, notes that there were plans for crossing gates, not sure if money has been allocated yet. A bit late, of course. There were comments that I can't verify that it was difficult for drivers, because of overgrowth, to see and hear approaching trains. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. And I'm guessing there are many like locations across the US. Of course, if the claims in the lawsuit turn out to be correct, then it wasn't just the lack of gates, lights and bells, though maybe they could have prevented it. Obviously it will be a while before we know anything for sure.

In a country with massive amounts of rail freight, and some passenger / commuter, there's a lot that needs to be reviewed. That's something that need not wait for the latest NTSB report on a rail accident, nor the one before this.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:09 pm Here it is. Not ABC. Been a few days since I watched.

https://youtu.be/vhum4zg_Kw4

I appreciate the warning from one of the NTSB investigators, "Action must be taken" regarding what locals call a dangerous crossing. I read that the estimate is $4-500,000 to put in gates. I've no idea why it costs so much - it seems to me that we need to find a way to cut the costs for effective crossing gates. Of course, grade separated is better, but more expensive.

Bracdude181 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:53 pm To me it would seem that some of the stuff Amtrak and BNSF are claiming hasn’t been proven yet.

It looks to me like standard legal boilerplate in lawsuits. It seems remarkably restrained -- not "negligently" failing ... , "negligently" operating ..., etc.

I think "pray" in this context is being used in its 18th-century meaning of "request."

Interesting

Would be cheaper to close the grade crossing. If there are others nearby the number of roads crossing the railroad could be consolidated.
But of course the thinking is reversed when it comes to road vs rail. Nobody is wondering if the $ 4.5 million for this crossing will provide a return , and if it doesn't the answer is to close the road. Might make a 10 minute longer drive for someone.

I thought it was about $450,000.

A big problem with this crossing is poor visibility. Apparently it is raised (I know, grade separation would still be expensive). From what I've read, not only is it hard to see and hear, you lose a lot of ground clearance trying to go over it - apparently the truck, heavily loaded, got caught. IOTW, regardless of what crossings are nearby, use of the crossing probably needs to be limited even if crossing gates are installed.

The estimate is $400,000 to $500,000 ... abbreviated "$4-500,000" could be confusing for someone who is accustomed to seeing dashes within a number. "Praying" for a judgement has nothing to do with religion ... just an old time way of saying requesting of the court. I expect that Amtrak and BNSF have some sort of unreleased evidence to support their "the truck never stopped" claim. I'm not sure how they would prove the use of an electronic device unless there was some unreleased evidence with the truck driver. But I am comfortable that Amtrak and BNSF are in a position to have evidence that has not yet been released to the public. The crossing is fairly busy with a (2019) reported 2.4 average trains per hour - not one where a driver would expect not to see a train.

FYI: Taking a look at the crossing inventory that has been quoted on many sites - The "five vehicles per day" road traffic is from 1989. The train counts (29 between 6am and 6pm, 29 between 6pm and 6am) are from 2019 - with two Amtrak's per day. Train speeds are listed as being 1 to 90 miles per hour. The stop signs shown in NTSB and media coverage are not noted on the crossing inventory.

Relying on a 33 year old count as if it is for last year's traffic is misleading if not dishonest. The first step toward any improvements at that crossing would be to update the inventory with accurate recent counts.