Southern Tier downgraded?

Although the lease agreement allows the line to go dark, it also stipulates the line is to be upgraded. Here's the agreement, from the STB filing:

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... 212845.pdf

As cited in Attachment C, the line is to be FRA class II (25 MPH freight), with no more than 10% route miles slow ordered by December 2006, and by January, 2009, line is to be FRA Class III (40 MPH), with no more than 10% route miles slow ordered .

Interestingly, according to Section 37 of the agreement, passenger trains will be restricted to 25MPH, and are required to provide $100 Million insurance coverage

Passenger trains? Am I missing something here? I didn't think we would ever getr Pass. trains up here.

Andy, there were several articles in Railpace and other train mags in the late '90s about proposals to redevelop the old EL Delaware Division as a passenger corridor. Since CR only ran a limited number of trains on the line, passenger service seemed like a good idea, especially since it looked like Suzie-Q was interested in Bingo-Syracuse passenger service.

However, the idea to redevelop Port Jervis-Bingo was competing against the proposed restoration of the Lackawanna cut-off so not much has been done with the Delaware Division. Furthermore, regular passenger traffic between Bingo-Syracuse has also failed to develop, despite some public monies being made available.

It's just a guess, but I figure the Feds put the passenger speed limit in the paperwork just in case the project ever comes to reality. Considering how fast these proposals have moved, I'm not holding my breath while I wait. Does that make me a cynic?

..THING IS VERY INTERESTING. The signal system fails so frequently that to abandone it would make for faster trips because trains wouldn't have to be talked by each signal. CNY being a seperate entity from NYSW although also owned by DO frees it to market and develop for its own benifet rather than the NYSW's. As for passenger service, NS just plain doesn't want the liabiltiy; remember they are only leasing the tracks, not selling them, to CNY. The fact remains that neither NS nor CSX (or any other large class 1 for that matter) wants to be bothered with marketing, selling and providing local services so they lease or sell off to shortlines which are more capable of providing those services. It is just hoped that in the case of CNY that agressive marketing couples with the desire and ability to suppy the services will yield a better New York, Lake Erie, and Western or WEARY ERIE. Good luck guys.

ANDY117 wrote:So the signals are either off, or in approach? Interesting. The only train i saw was a w/b autorack with a CSX AC4400, and a NYSW B40. This line used to be doubletracked, but it was reduced to single track near that plant in Hancock.

The operation that I have seen that seems to by CR typical with color lights is...

When the train enters the block, the signal ahead will be lit so when the train reaches it...it will obviously be seen. However, the signal in the opposing direction will normally NOT be lit unless there is a train in the opposing block. When the train passes the signal, the opposite direction then will light up red, and the signals usually go dark within 30secs after the train passes it, or until its out of the block.

SP, UP, DRGW, B&O and a few others typically used approach-lit signals (not showing approach, but lights up when the train is to enter the block).

From what I have seen, CSX still uses approach lit signals on lines that have not been upgraded (B&O signals, Chessie signals etc). All new signals and upgraded signal systems tend to have always on CP's, and intermediate signals can be continously lit, or approach lit. I have seen both.

Amtrak is using continously lit signals. NS, UP, BNSF appears to be using approach lit as well. What I have noticed, the higher traffic lines in urban area's tend to be lit all the time, and the out of the way places approach lit..this is due for maitence issues (bulb replacements in the middle of nowhere with 4 feet of snow isn't fun).

Does the entire tier work like that or just east of Binghamton?

joshuahouse wrote:Does the entire tier work like that or just east of Binghamton?

Yes, apparently so. The ERIE system was approach lit. In some cases it was one block approach, in others it was two block approach. Home signals were always lit.

The DL had a similar system but I remember approach signals or "distant" home signals, though automatic, were always lit as was high traffic density areas line Denville to Dover. Also the eastbound automatic signal on track one on the Boonton Line was always lit.

I am sure there are enough combinations of approach systems to fill a book or two!

Interestingly, according to Section 37 of the agreement, passenger trains will be restricted to 25MPH, and are required to provide $100 Million insurance coverage

That was put in the agreement to prevent any historic societies from getting the idea they could run a passenger excursion on the line. This is the same restriction that was placed on the Southern Division of the NYS&W a few years ago.

Chris