Second Ave Subway Construction thru Phase I open

No, it's not a screwup to have only locals. With modern equipment the start/stop is quick, and if they incorporate regeneration of some kind, not even too costly in energy. Compare the acceleration/braking in 1904 to a Kawasaki in 2004. It's a huge savings in construction for only a few minutes longer ride.

Now, it's a different story with really long runs like out Queens Blvd.

NIMBYkiller wrote:The entire line will only be 2 tracks, which while it makes sense in the short run financially, is a BIG screw up.

Don't forget CBTC is in testing on the Canarsie Line. With the frequent runs stemming from it, express tracks for the SAS will be a memory.

But NYC should definitely make expresses. Don't mess anybody around by underestimating ridership.

I'd agree with the lack of foresight in running only locals- that's the biggest lesson to learn from the DC Metro. Even with good computer control, one train fouling up leads to 15 minute delays pretty quickly. It also creates problems when you need to do maintenance and single track along the line. Even a pocket track at a couple places to allow breakdown trains to be temporarily stored would help immensly.

The lack of expresses is a disaster and a disgrace. Modern electric MU cars don't necessarily accelerate better than older cars, although they may be more efficient. The problem is that the maximum acceleration for a subway car isn't a technical limit--it's how much force can a standing passenger be subject to? I suspect that the allowable acceleration may actually be less than it was "back in the day," when, if I recall it was 1.5 mph/sec.

OK, I stand corrected on the acceleration.

What I *do* think is important is to get a subway built!! and if that means 2 tracks only, let's accept that as a necessary compromise. Remember, the Lex has 4 tracks so the express service from the Bronx will still be there.

Vlissengen wrote:Don't forget CBTC is in testing on the Canarsie Line. With the frequent runs stemming from it, express tracks for the SAS will be a memory

CBTC does not produce the frequencies nor the kind of service that express trains on the NYC subway sees. People do wait for the express versus the local because it is faster.

As for frequency, I have yet to see a CBTC service beat PATH's 40 TPH through the tubes between Downtown and Exchange Place.

The Second Avenue Final Environmental Impact Study is completed. It has the conceptual pictures of the Second Avenue Subway Stations seen in todays New York Post, track maps, and an executive summary. The FEIS is about 500+ pages and the executive summary is 74 pages, but if you read it, you'll know everything about the Second Avenue Subway to come.

Some significant differences are in contained compared to older plans for the SAS we may have seen.

Second Avenue Subway Final Environmental Impact Study

JayMan wrote:The Second Avenue Final Environmental Impact Study is completed. It has the conceptual pictures of the Second Avenue Subway Stations seen in todays New York Post, track maps, and an executive summary. The FEIS is about 500+ pages and the executive summary is 74 pages, but if you read it, you'll know everything about the Second Avenue Subway to come.

Some significant differences are in contained compared to older plans for the SAS we may have seen.

Second Avenue Subway Final Environmental Impact Study

I spent a good chunk of my afternoon reading through the executive summary. My head hurts, but I must say the plan looks OK to me. As to the lack of expresses on the "T," seems they tried to keep budgets/impacts under some degree of control (for a $15 billion-plus project), and certainly they plan to run frequent-enough trains to ease crowding.

Looks like the MTA wants to start construction work LATER THIS YEAR!!! Factoring in the usual delays, we could see the first Minimum Operating Segment around 2013.

Just realized something
Shouldn't they connect seaport to thefuture fulton street transit center

"Shouldn't they connect seaport to the future fulton street transit center"

Makes sense to me.

"Shouldn't they connect seaport to the future fulton street transit center"

Makes sense to me.

just mixing 2 projects together... Maybe a metrocard transfer

why dont they make a permanent skipstop

Or, perhaps, make the stations so that expresses may be added later.