Route 15 Trolley Operation

Bill R. wrote:It is beyond the complete control of the individual county level governments, especially given politcal infighting between urban Democrats and suburban Republicans.

Being restricted to only those counties means that it is not a direct responsibility of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, in comparison with the structure of NJ Transit.

... So there isn't a single level of goverment responsible, and that leaves the door open for everyone to point the finger of blame at everyone else. All the while, nothing actually improves.

Right, right and right again! Look up what the Brits call a "quango" and you have SEPTA in a nutshell*

*and you can read that last word wth the syllable break after the 't' OR after the 's'

Bill R. wrote: A consolidated metro government entity encompassing the five counties does not exist in the Philadelphia region.

this was an idea that Richardson Dillworth suggested back in the '50s. I'm guessing that he clearly saw the federal policies that favored the shrinkage of the influence of cities and the promotion of sprawl. His idea was that a regional govornment would be created that would encompass the city and the close suburbs and prevent the competition between the two.

The suburban communities wanted no part of that - their growth was primarially fueled by whites who didn't want to live near minorities but still wanted to live near the city. A regional govornment would have slowed the growth of the suburbs and so the suburban governments wanted no part of that.

Fine, where do we go from here? We really need to reform both the suburban governments and the city government. Too much apathy in the region leads to very self-serving politicians who do things that benefit themselves and not the city/suburb that they represent.

I really beleieve that folks who favor more and better transit will support the growth of the city so that transportation can be made more efficient (greater densities) and will support the reforms that are necessary for the city to reduce or eliminate the wage tax and buisness privelage tax even if that won't benefit their little suburb. Regionalism...we all sink or swim together.

A friend of mine got a hold of an information guide for the transit system in State College, PA.

It lists bio information for all of the board members of that system, ALL of whom have major transportation experience. It details a complete history of the history of the system and the bus fleet, past, present, and future. And schedules for the system were in there too....along with lots of other information that would be useful to riders.

Boy, if SEPTA ever did that.....well, it wouldn't be SEPTA, LOL!

I know I wasn't seeing things this evening-----NABI Bus 5014 had a IR Lamp mounted on its roof! I'm assuming this bus is permenantly assigned as a PROTECT bus on Rt 15. But I can't believe they went and mounted a lamp on it (I didn't ride it so I don't know if it acutally functions, or if the operator knows its there). I put an inquiry in to the harrassment department at 1234 to find out why the operators aren't using the system to hold the lights on Girard.

From what I've seen from riding to Front St, a good minute or 2 could be saved holding the lights when there are no passengers to load/unload, plus the lights where there are no stops---which was the whole point in eliminating stops. I'll post their response here of course.

jfrey40535 wrote: I put an inquiry in to the harrassment department at 1234 to find out why the operators aren't using the system to hold the lights on Girard.

My bet is that the system is still inoperative.

The CATA system in State College seems to be run very well. I generally see a lot of buses when I am there for a town with a relatively small population. I think that the buses use natural gas or something like that. I don't remember seeing any PSU buses on the roads though.
It's a shame that SEPTA could not be better managed because so much of their system seems to have been truncated or eliminated railwise.
Greg19051

On Saturday I saw a route 15 trolley west bound with the destination as "26th and Girard'. Was this en error or have some 15's been trurned around at the loop near girard College ?

If the trolleys are running behind schedule, the line supervisor can opt to cut the car short and turn it around mid-route, which seems to be happening alot.

During rush hour, many cars are also being turned around at Cumberland loop, forcing passengers to board a Rt 39 bus and extending the bus to Madison loop.

There is also alot of frustration with the operation so far down at good 'ol 1234, with talk of converting the line back to bus. I don't think SEPTA would have any trouble of disposting of the cars if they wanted to either, but I'm sure the political fallout would prevent that. Nevertheless, management is very unhappy with running the line and I wouldn't be surprised if they were helping sabotoge it.

Interesting note: none of the current operators were trained by any experienced trolley instructors. They were only trained with regular safey & instruction personell. Hmmm......

jfrey40535 wrote:......There is also alot of frustration with the operation so far down at good 'ol 1234, with talk of converting the line back to bus. I don't think SEPTA would have any trouble of disposting of the cars if they wanted to either, but I'm sure the political fallout would prevent that. Nevertheless, management is very unhappy with running the line and I wouldn't be surprised if they were helping sabotoge it.......

And if SEPTA converted the line they'd recieve quite a hefty bill from the state and feds to the tune of over $80million. From what I heard, SEPTA has to run the line for at least 10 years before they can even think about converting it back without any retribution from Uncle Sam and with a shotty budget as it is, I don't think SEPTA wants to just fork over $80M just like that.

How is this route going? running smooth? Hope it goes well.

There are a few glitches here and there, but overall I see the line doing well.

I'm glad to hear this...yeah to Bob Hughes.

I'm glad a regular car line has re-opened...it does not go into the subway right? It is interesting how Boston can be so anti streetcar when the A & E both went into the subway.

aline1969 wrote:I'm glad to hear this...yeah to Bob Hughes.

I'm glad a regular car line has re-opened...it does not go into the subway right?...

100% street running.

There are a few glitches here and there, but overall I see the line doing well.

Sorry I have to disagree. I'm a daily rider and right now you have a 60/40 chance of riding a streetcar over a bus. Alot of operators are still running scared, meaning they are slow. Some know how to fly. Whatever traffic light control they installed on Girard, we still seem to be stopping at alot of red lights which make the slow trolleys even slower.

Last night, I also saw a streetcar operator driving a bus. Didn't ask why. There is plenty of room for improvement. Granted we're only a month into this, the general consensus among operators is they didn't get adequate training and the trolley was a bad idea. Most daily commuters agree. The only people I hear positive remarks from are railfans, and people in the neighborhood who like seeing the trolley but don't ride it.

jfrey40535 wrote:

There are a few glitches here and there, but overall I see the line doing well.

Sorry I have to disagree. I'm a daily rider and right now you have a 60/40 chance of riding a streetcar over a bus.

While I'm not a daily rider, I ride it frequently enough (and I do mean ride it and not fan it) to guage how the line is doing. I dunno about you but I haven't ridden with a petrified driver since this one operator that wouldn't get the car over 20 and that was 3 weeks ago (granted I haven't rode with him since). You can't factor that though into the performance of the line since that comes with opening of any line.

And your ratio is a tad skewed. I usually see only one bus regularly on the line now. What you are seeing are prolly peak hour extras called in to alleviate overcrowded cars. This was also true back when the original PCCs roamed the line back in the late 80s early 90s. Often times you would see a PCC followed by a bus followed by a Kawasaki car on the line.

Alot of operators are still running scared, meaning they are slow. Some know how to fly. Whatever traffic light control they installed on Girard, we still seem to be stopping at alot of red lights which make the slow trolleys even slower.

Last night, I also saw a streetcar operator driving a bus. Didn't ask why. There is plenty of room for improvement. Granted we're only a month into this, the general consensus among operators is they didn't get adequate training and the trolley was a bad idea. Most daily commuters agree. The only people I hear positive remarks from are railfans, and people in the neighborhood who like seeing the trolley but don't ride it.