Rail & Post-Indus. Economy in Maine. Return to 19th Cen.?

I usually don't like to make blanket statements but on this one I think you can go ahead and throw it out the window....

One bright spot in the northeast is No. 18 Massachusetts ... but the state ranks first overall in quality of life ...

Anyone ranking Massachusetts ahead of Maine in "Quality of Life" needs to get help.

Further comment:

Surveys like these are often skewed against states non "right to work" states (Maine, with "closed shop" rules even for public employees, arguably being the biggest example of this). Sometimes surveys like this would be better titled "Easiest Places to Do Business" as opposed to "Best" Places to Do Business.

If you're willing to play by the rules, take care of your people and settle in for the long-term I think Maine is very competitive. If on the other hand you want to be able to come in and setup shop without concerns regarding environmental protection, zoning ordinances, or any taxes at all, sure, Maine probably isn't the right place.

Our natural resources aren't just a "nice" feature of life for us. They support and supply the lifeblood of our economy. Environmental protection isn't a "social" choice for Maine it's fundamentally an economic one as well. Zoning ordinances are part of that system as well.

Good companies who do choose to start a business in Maine and stay there (such as L.L. Bean) are ultimately rewarded with an intensely loyal workforce that is willing to do almost anything possible for the company.

gokeefe wrote:I usually don't like to make blanket statements but on this one I think you can go ahead and throw it out the window....

One bright spot in the northeast is No. 18 Massachusetts ... but the state ranks first overall in quality of life ...

Anyone ranking Massachusetts ahead of Maine in "Quality of Life" needs to get help.

Kind of depends upon what your definition is of "quality of life". Maine is certainly a wonderful place, but there's a lot of great things about living in the metro-Boston area that Maine can't offer, such as a lot of diverse culture, world class higher education institutes, hospitals, museums/historical sites, restaurants, sports and entertainment venues to name a few. And while Maine is clearly more of a rural state that appeals to "outdoors" types, Mass does have some beautiful mountainous areas as well as world class beaches. Sure we have more traffic, crime, pollution, corrupt politicians, etc but again, really depends on the person.

gokeefe wrote:

MikeVT wrote:Simple, home building, shopping, and tourism are about the only industries/activites we have not been able to ship to China.

Agriculture is another example...

Actually, I beg to differ. A LOT of agricultural product comes to us from overseas, especially produce.

roberttosh wrote:

gokeefe wrote:I usually don't like to make blanket statements but on this one I think you can go ahead and throw it out the window....

One bright spot in the northeast is No. 18 Massachusetts ... but the state ranks first overall in quality of life ...

Anyone ranking Massachusetts ahead of Maine in "Quality of Life" needs to get help.

Kind of depends upon what your definition is of "quality of life". Maine is certainly a wonderful place, but there's a lot of great things about living in the metro-Boston area that Maine can't offer, such as a lot of diverse culture, world class higher education institutes, hospitals, museums/historical sites, restaurants, sports and entertainment venues to name a few. And while Maine is clearly more of a rural state that appeals to "outdoors" types, Mass does have some beautiful mountainous areas as well as world class beaches. Sure we have more traffic, crime, pollution, corrupt politicians, etc but again, really depends on the person.

roberttosh,

Please rest assured we do in fact have hospitals. Are they world class? Most would say Maine Medical Center/Barbara Bush Children's Hospital in Portland certainly is, understandably it's not Mass. General.

Depending on where you are there's plenty to see and do. Portland in particular is known for its diversity of restaurants and museums. As far as historical sites go, take your pick, the whole state is a historical site from top to bottom. I would further submit that by practically any standard Colby, Bates, and Bowdoin qualify as world class education institutes. Hadlock Field in Portland, home of the Portland Seadogs, is certainly known for its minor-league charm. Depending on the time of year there are all kinds of entertainment venues, the Monmouth Theater is one summertime example.

Does Maine have as many of these things as Massachusetts/Boston, certainly not. But do we have our fair share (or more) of world class community assets? Absolutely. Surveys such as the one mentioned at times have the feel of more of a political statement against a particular state's policies than some kind of real assessment of the business climate.

The fact that Maine was listed below Michigan with an expected economic contraction of -1.7% really leads me to believe that the criteria are weighted against us in general.

gokeefe wrote:Please rest assured we do in fact have hospitals. Are they world class? Most would say Maine Medical Center/Barbara Bush Children's Hospital in Portland certainly is, understandably it's not Mass. General..

Maine Med is a very good hospital. An acquaintance of mine has been getting very good care there -- mostly to undo the damage (all of it entirely preventable) that was done to him by a certain "world class" hospital in Boston. (It wasn't MGH)

"Good companies who do choose to start a business in Maine and stay there (such as L.L. Bean) are ultimately rewarded with an intensely loyal workforce that is willing to do almost anything possible for the company."

Does that include energy companies? Maine's citizens have shot down at least two LNG projects, and are now protesting an LPG terminal proposal in Searsport... interesting indeed considering that the Forbes article cited Maine's uncompetitive enegy costs in its survey.

I'd be willing to wager that if LL Bean was to be starting his business TODAY, he would NOT be locating it in Maine. And not to crap on Maine's workforce (I have no opinion as to whether it's better or worse than, say, South Carolina), but as someone who's experienced paper mill strikes in Maine first-hand, I'd take the second comment with a grain of salt.

Cowford wrote:"Good companies who do choose to start a business in Maine and stay there (such as L.L. Bean) are ultimately rewarded with an intensely loyal workforce that is willing to do almost anything possible for the company."

Does that include energy companies? Maine's citizens have shot down at least two LNG projects, and are now protesting an LPG terminal proposal in Searsport... interesting indeed considering that the Forbes article cited Maine's uncompetitive enegy costs in its survey.

Both of those projects died not just because of the environmentalists. The LNG tankers would have shutdown prime lobstering ground with their security zones. Once they lost the lobstermen it was over. There were also plenty of people who had concerns about ruining the view from prime ocean side properties.

I agree Searsport is a mess. Unfortunately its the same issue. Just a lot of people who don't want to see heavy maritime commerce on Penobscot Bay. My suggestion in these situations would be to setup an "off-shore" terminal. This has already been done elsewhere. Otherwise anyone who wants to just go ahead and drop an LNG terminal right on the Maine coast will probably continue to fail.

Cowford wrote:I'd be willing to wager that if LL Bean was to be starting his business TODAY, he would NOT be locating it in Maine. And not to crap on Maine's workforce (I have no opinion as to whether it's better or worse than, say, South Carolina), but as someone who's experienced paper mill strikes in Maine first-hand, I'd take the second comment with a grain of salt.

I think it would be kind of hard to create the "original Maine hunting shoe" anywhere outside of Maine.

One of the things that I discovered in my on-going occasional reading about the Jay strike is that an out of state organizer came into town that radicalized the Local. The wiki is remarkably specific about this (not that this means it's necessarily true).

I personally know people who work up there now and from everything I've seen they're good people who are committed to doing great things for the company.

I love Maine as much as anyone, and while they no doubt have very good hospitals and colleges/universities, they are not world class as in they don't have people coming from all over the world to them for treatment like you see with Mass General/Dana Farber/Brigham & Womens or for an education like you see with Harvard, MIT, Tufts, Brandeis, BU, etc. And c'mon, the SeaDogs are a fun night out for sure, but compared to the Fenway experience, or the Pats, Celtics or Bruins? Maine just doesn't get the same shows, entertainers, concerts, etc and other than the Old Port, where is there great night life/culture 365 days a year? And even the Old Port is pretty dead in the winter. Again, Maine is a wonderful, wonderful place, but unless you're the outdoors type, the Boston area offers a hundred times more things to do (including getting mugged, getting stuck in traffic, choking on pollution, etc, etc)

I guess it really depends on the individual as I know there are Mainers that would rather be dead than live in Mass, just as there are Mass folks that would take Mogadishu over Maine.

roberttosh wrote:I love Maine as much as anyone, and while they no doubt have very good hospitals and colleges/universities, they are not world class as in they don't have people coming from all over the world to them for treatment like you see with Mass General/Dana Farber/Brigham & Womens or for an education like you see with Harvard, MIT, Tufts, Brandeis, BU, etc.

Speaking of global medical travel. I chuckled when I saw this article in the Bangor Daily News this morning.

PORTLAND, Maine — Noora Afif Abdulhameed sat at a table at the Ronald McDonald House on Friday, shyly explaining that she felt well after the latest surgery to repair damage to her skull by a U.S. sniper’s bullet in Iraq.

Noora, 10, returned to Maine last week for the third time since 2008 for an operation at Maine Medical Center to cover a bald spot on the back of her head. The third-grader has endured numerous surgeries since the 2006 shooting, which shattered her skull and left her in a coma.

Also of note...Colby, Bates and Bowdoin (Colby in particular) have very robust cultural exchange programs that bring in foreign students. Other institutions of higher education in Maine do as well but not to the same extent.

As mentioned before I'm certain that Boston has more of everything. But I think Maine has a lot of what Boston and Massachusetts has to offer just on a smaller scale.

I think this dicussion is very informative as a reminder of how much about Maine's economy does not appear to be trending towards a return to the economic alignment of the 19th century. However, in terms of rural/semi-rural areas which previously were focused on the industrial economy, clearly there is some kind of realignment underway.

"I agree Searsport is a mess. Unfortunately its the same issue. Just a lot of people who don't want to see heavy maritime commerce on Penobscot Bay..."

Exactly my point. Mainers are all for a new lollypop store or craft shop... but propose industrial development that really creates jobs/wealth and watch the sparks fly!

And on that subject, how do you think Portland residents will react to the possibility of having 30-40,000 tons of wood pellet storage on their waterfront?

Different scenario. That area is already heavily industrial, with oil tankers and tank farms and barges and scrap piles and coal piles and whatnot. I doubt anyone would even notice.

MEC407 wrote:I doubt anyone would even notice.

My thoughts exactly.

Cowford wrote:

gokeefe wrote:I agree Searsport is a mess. Unfortunately its the same issue. Just a lot of people who don't want to see heavy maritime commerce on Penobscot Bay...

Exactly my point. Mainers are all for a new lollypop store or craft shop... but propose industrial development that really creates jobs/wealth and watch the sparks fly!

While I think it is entirely correct to say that development on the coastline in general is "sensitive". I don't think it's entirely out of the question. Washburn & Doughty and Hodgdon Yachts in East Boothbay have a very long history in that area and have gone through multiple rounds of expansion directly on their shoreline properties within the last 10-20 years. Bath Iron Works has also expanded several times to include addition of a massive floating dry dock.

Establishing new industrial areas can be very challenging, especially when there are still brownfield sites available for development. Obviously the brownfields are often too small, in the wrong location, have poor access to land transportation or some combination of all three. Cianbro's takeover of a former industrial site in Brewer to construct refinery modules is one of the better recent examples of industrial site reuse.

Although the "yacht and tennis" crowd is influential that alone isn't always enough to stop development. Every single time I've seen maritime related projects fail it's been because someone was proposing something that would impinge on lobstering grounds. Depending on the way its measured lobstering is usually the #1 or #2 economic activity in the State of Maine. It's really really really serious business for a lot of people and a lot of families. People just don't take lightly to the idea of having enormous ocean going vessels plying the inland Maine Coast line. Combine this with the land-based environmental lobbies trying to preserve wild green spaces and then you have the situation in Seasport.

I still think someone should be examing the possibility of building an off-shore LNG terminal. Perhaps this setup would be able to take advantage of Maine's relative isolation without disturbing sensitive lobstering grounds. One area that could probably piggy-back on the investment would be Wiscasset with its transmission infrastructure (which is still in place) from the former Maine Yankee plant. Every indication I've ever seen there is that people wouldn't have a major problem with natural gas power generation.

Your mention of lobstering and Wiscasset reminds me of a few years ago when there was a proposal for a coal gasification plant there. A lot of people were opposed to the proposal just because it involved coal, but the biggest and loudest opposition was from lobstermen and fishermen.