Q159 rear-ends Q161 on the River Line 6/27

At 440AM on 6/27 Q159 rear ended Q161 28 miles south of Selkirk at Alsen NY. About 15 cars derailed, some of the containers either blocked route 9W or came close to doing so. 159 was traveling around 30 MPH, but there were no injuries according to first reports.
Four trains are behind the derailment.

Nothing in the local papers here in Poughkeepsie/Highland?(typical)Was anyone hurt ?Is the line re-opened?

Yes line is reopened here are some pictures from Alan Schenkel of Hudson River Rail group At :
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/h ... l/messages

Images of Derailment/rear ender

http://www.trainweb.org/locollection/DOHpart1.jpg
http://www.trainweb.org/locollection/DOHpart2.jpg
http://www.trainweb.org/locollection/DOHpart3.jpg
http://www.trainweb.org/locollection/DOHpart4.jpg

Thanks,for the 411.As I recall there was a derailment there a few years ago.

So were have you been Steve ?? were missing your great pictures.

A 1 1/2-mile portion of U.S. Route 9W near the Ulster-Greene county line remained closed late Sunday night as CSX crews worked to complete cleanup and repairs after a freight train derailed before sunrise.
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Eight cars from two trains derailed around 4:45 Sunday morning near the West Camp Post Office. One car landing onto a portion of 9W, CSX spokeswoman Misty Skipper said.

No one was injured in the derailment, state police in Ulster said.

Six of the derailed cars were empty and the other two were carrying general merchandise, such as radios and other electronics, Skipper said.

The two twin-engine trains were each headed form the Newark, N.J., area bound for Selkirk, according to Skipper.

Skipper said she expected the track to reopen by this morning.

Police said they did not know when the affected portion of 9W would reopen to traffic.

The cause of the derailment is under investigation, Skipper said.

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/site/news.c ... 2585&rfi=6

River line did indeed suffer a derailment this past weekend. On sunday AM, at 4:45(approx.) Q159, a Port Newark-Chicago Stack Train slammed into the rear end of Q161 a Kearny-Chicago TOFC/Stack train at MP 103.5 on the River Subdivision in Alsen NY, about 30 miles south of Selkirk. Engineer on Q159 stated he believed he had a medium approach indication at CP-102(Prepare to stop at next signal, if exceeding medium speed, reduce speed as soon as signal is visible). there is a sharp S curve just north of CP 102, where the single track goes two double track until CP-106. It tunred out he had a restricting signal, (NORAC Rule 80), requring speed not in excess of 10 MPH, prepared to stop within 1/2 the range of vision, etc....
The 159 slammed into the 161 at close to 30 MPH, resulting in several flat cars on the rear of the 161 being sent in numerous directions, including onto a nearby highway, US Rte 9W. No injuries, no HazMats involved and the strength of the wide body probably saved the 159 crew from any serious injury. Track was closed immediately and trains eventually started running again about 7PM Sunday. Significant delays in both directions resulted. Crew will be subject to discipline, and as this is the second incident of this type for this engineer within a tear, he will either be fired or restricted to working as a conductor only. This covers the nuts and bolts of the incident in question....
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Is this where the siding was extended a few years ago, ending by a highway intersection with a traffic light? I knew someone in DOT who said the state had to put longer visors on the traffic lights so the RR crews would not mistake them for a false RR signal indication. Maybe that came into play?

Most of the sidings on the River Line have been extended. I understand that there are many places because of bridges and tunnels that the whole line can't be doubled tracked.

I can tell you the following. The railroad, is basically a single track main with seven passing sigings. Alsen is one of them, between CP 102 and CP 106. The normal speed, based on a clear track, is 30 MPH through the controlled sidings on the line, all except CP-87 to CP 90 which runs through Kingston and has a speed limit of 15 MPH. In this particular siding, it is set up so that when a train is stopped between CP 102 and 106, and the dispatcher brings in a second train behind the first, the best signal displayed is usually a restricting. The dispatcher also can talk the second train pass the red signal, giving him permission to pass the stop, once he has come to a complete stop. Then the train has to proceed at Restricted speed. The siding between CP 102 and 106 should be long enough to accomodate both trains. However, there is an active crossing towards the north end of the double track that cannot be blocked w/o dispatcher permission.
As there is a detector just north of CP 106, at MP 1081.1, generally northbound trains will pull up to CP 106 after hearing the southbound pass the detector, unless told otherwise. The 161 and 159 were to meet at least 1 possibly two southbounds. So by the time the southbound cleared CP 106, the 161 would have gotten the OK to head north at CP 106, and the 159 would have cleared CP 102 and then everyone SHOULD have then proceeded according to signal indication. Unfortunately, this "ballet" did not happen, and we now know the result.
BTW, if the crews mistake a traffic light for a false signal, then they had better get re-qualified on the territory or be disqualified. The DOT statement sounds like a typical statement by someone with no clue to RR operations.....

DutchRailnut; that first link doesn't help anyone if they aren't a member of that group!

I count 7 sidings between Selkirk and North Bergen not counting the double track south of Serkirk and north of N. Bergen. I also didn't count those 2 industrial sidings of 1/2 and 1 mile in length.

Good to see you too Jaap!Is there a photo posting area aboard this webbysite?Of course most of my photography now days is brides/grooms not Gennys ,SD's or Dash's.Although the last two autumn's,Ive ventured west to OK,AR,TX,AZ,UT,NM,CA to watch BNSF/UP.Are you still rolling on the Harlem line?I see they are still using a few cabs for the shuttles both there and in CT.

There IS a traffic light at the south end of a siding below Catskill, right next to the RR's signal (close enough to throw a rock at). This situation occurred when CSX extended the siding. CSX paid the state to add extended visors to the traffic lights so the RR crews could not see them from the trains.

Now, if it was a matter of being "properly qualified" then CSX should have had nothing to worry about. After all, a crew should know a traffic light from a signal, right? Here's the potential problem, though: it's 3AM, no cars on 9W, or the cross street, so the light is green for 9W. A train comes around the bend, sees a restricting indication on their signal but green on the highway light. The line of sight puts these within inches of each other as seen from the cab, and there is a moment of confusion. Worse yet if the RR signal is out completely and the traffic light taken for a highball!

Yes, a worst-case scenario, but dumber things have happened, like Amtrak running several reds because of "sun glare" and stopping 400 FEET from an oncoming freight.

No, I do not work for the RR, but I do have a "clue" about their operations. Seems the engineer who rear-ended the train (at 30 MPH!) at Alsen needs a refresher, though...

rcbsd45 wrote: BTW, if the crews mistake a traffic light for a false signal, then they had better get re-qualified on the territory or be disqualified. The DOT statement sounds like a typical statement by someone with no clue to RR operations.....

you're right... but could fatique affect the person to mistook the traffic light for signal light? even through I can tell the difference between these two different lights. Signal light's much bigger and brighter than traffic light. but with today's new traffic light LEDS, it's brighter now..

There was a story being told in one of the sites that a conductor couldn't believe what he saw... his engineer was sleeping and kept hitting the alerter without waking up.

So can you tell us if fatique could affect traincrew in mistook wrong light?

ken