Troubles on the Lake State RR

Hmmm. I won't say that it's the worst that I've seen, but it certainly isn't good. There's no doubt about that.

I have a few comments, even though no one asked:

1. First, no one should be taking pictures on the ROW, which is certainly the case in that first picture. It's a good way to get hit, arrested, banned, etc.

2. It seems the idea that there are drainage problems is certainly the case.

3. Yard tracks are often maintained at a different standard than mainline rails. I have nothing to back this statement up other than personal experience. It's not uncommon to see yard rails in rough shape and yet still used, so my guess is that it's acceptable to have a lower standard in such places. I remember seeing Mechanicville and (I think it was) Alplaus on Guilford looking little more than two shiny ribbons being eaten by black dirt in my youth, and yet those rails saw regular traffic.

Overall, though you or I may find the rails to be bad, don't advocate closing anything; the people maintaining the rails may be proud of the fact that they've been able to keep things running for as long as they have. Who knows what the budget there is.

Dave Becker

Pablo.

Seince you are making comments on stuff people dident ask you about. Mabey you should think about what you say. The first photo is taken from a public grade crossing, of the derailment (behind the photographer) along with probilly a few other people as the media was there. Just because some one is standing (appears to) on the right away, it dosent always mean they are tresspassing.

CSXT 700, whomever you are:

It doesn't matter whether anyone asked me or not. As a railroad employee and someone who has been through the Operation Lifesaver training, it is necessary to remind people about taking pictures illegally, which can be trespassing, and can certainly get you killed.

Your terrible spelling aside, I did think about what I said. What is irresponsible is taking pictures illegally or posting pictures that encourage said behavior. It certainly seems that the person that took them is remarkably close to standing in the gauge of the rails. Is that ever considered acceptable? I thought that it was not. If this was taken at the derailment site, there's hardly any harm in saying that they were taken at the derailment. However, as the picture was used to show poor track conditions, and doesn't show a derailment, suggesting that people not trespass or otherwise act illegally is hardly incorrect.

Including the media in your argument is silly, because we all know that the media could care less about rules.

Further, and lastly, if you are a conductor, you know that the railroad's property likely extends quite a bit away from the center of the track. I know on our railroad we have places where it's 50 feet on either side.

Let's recap: spell correctly, get your facts right, and learn about railroad property. I'm willing to help you if you need it.

Dave Becker

See that is the whole problem I have with your statements!

It certainly seems that the person that took them is remarkably close to standing in the gauge of the rails.

He is on a public road crossing, with no activity (trains moving) how is that tresspassing? If thats the case any car that drive's over a road crossing, is tresspassing! I will assume that you may ocasionally take railroad photographs. Have you ever walked up to the road crossing at any point in your life to see if a train was comming. Then you were tresspassing. Lets not get annel about it. If he was in the middle of nowhere out in the woods, I wouldent have a problem with your statement, but insted of asking or anything like that, you just started accusing. No for the record I dont like people who tresspass to get what everyone considers the "oh wow what a awsome photo" photos. But at the same time I have no problem with someone that stands off to the side (10-15ft.) of the farthest rail, its not like your going to hit them. But at the same time I must say that I cant stand programs like OLS. I mean if people are that stupid to be in the way tresspassing, and they get hit, oh well they shouldent have been there. Why do we need to teach people what to do. Where has all the commin sence gone? Hum that object is bigger, weighs more than me, and is moving fast, hum what should I do? If they cant figure it out then mabey its better. As far as the media comment, I was just making the point that he was probilly not the only one there. Mabey you should track all those other people down and let them know they were trespassing too. If you would have had you facts right I wouldent have had to put the facts in. Standing at a railroad crossing (road) and taking photos is not tresspassing, it is a public road, public property. Sorry no help needed.

Also seince my terrible spelling is aside (I thought if things were aside, they werent noticed (as in out of the way). If you go back and look at my first post I almost always appoligise for my bad spelling. If I did not then here it is here. Never has been my strong sute and never will be. If I had to spell check everything I did that was not offical, I would never get anything done. Nice of you to notice it. If its that much of a problem, you and everyone else can let me know and I will be more that happy to keep my oppions to my self from now on.

OLS certainly isn't a stupid program. It's made to put common sense back into morons who like to play on the railroad tracks and run around the gates. People seriously lack common sense these days and when they get hurt they hold others responsible. OLS tries to educate those who do not fully understand the dangers of the railroad. The ones who need education about it make up about 95% of the population. The other 5% are rail employees or railfans (not foamers), who understand and respect the dangers.

Kevin

NS212 is correct. OLS is not a stupid program, and to suggest it is demonstrates a lack of understanding about a good many things. I agree with you, CSXT700, everybody should know better. Sadly, though, they don't.

On to the rest of your sillyness. Of course a car crossing a set of tracks isn't tresspassing, my boy, but standing on the rails at a crossing to take a picture could certainly be considered tresspassing, as you aren't using the road for its intended purpose, which is to cross. Railroad rules aside, standing in the middle of any road or even parking there is illegal...check your traffic laws. You might even get in trouble for both if you were to park your vehicle across the tracks, especially if you had the intent to block traffic. That would be a federal offense, blocking interstate commerce. Look that up too.

Overall, seeing a foamer such as yourself parking on the tracks or standing on the tracks is the sort of thing that makes railroaders shake their heads and personal injury lawyers salivate. It's also the sort of thing that causes railroads to stop being railfan-friendly. Considering one of the original posts from someone else in this thread advocated closing down the railroad, perhaps that's not a bad idea for Lake State to consider.

Dave Becker

CSXT 700 wrote: But at the same time I have no problem with someone that stands off to the side (10-15ft.) of the farthest rail, its not like your going to hit them.....

WHAT??? Ten to fifteen feet away? A railroad employee would never say something like that. Not a knock here, but i dont think you have saw enough of what can happen. 30 to 50 yards is alot safer.

If you do plan to stick around here for awhile, download Google tool bar theres spell check on there dude, my posts would look all jacked up if i didnt use it.

Lets get back to the original topic now.

Now do you all believe me on how bad those tracks are??? No wonder they always have derailments. And Did you see an approach signal in he second picture before the switch? I did not.

UPRR engineer wrote:

CSXT 700 wrote: But at the same time I have no problem with someone that stands off to the side (10-15ft.) of the farthest rail, its not like your going to hit them.....

WHAT??? Ten to fifteen feet away? A railroad employee would never say something like that. Not a knock here, but i dont think you have saw enough of what can happen. 30 to 50 yards is alot safer.

Just to reinforce what UPRR stated, here's an example of why 10-15 feet isn't always safe. Back in my early foaming days around 1980 I was trackside along the P&LE west of Pittsburgh. I had just photographed an e/b freight and was mindlessly watching it go by at about 40mph when I heard a twanging sound in the breeze. I turned around to see a loaded lumber flat about two cars away. Apparently one of those heavy duty steel bands around the lumber had let loose and was whipping in the wind, across the w/b track, and ready to ruin my day!! I got myself in the clear in a hurry!! And I was a good 25 feet from the train, which I thought was plenty far. Not so and lesson learned.

Thank you, thebigc. That's a great indication of the point at hand. Employees are taught to expect a train at any point, at any time, etc. It's great that you didn't get injured.

UPRR Engineer is rigt on another point...I don't think CSXT 700 is a railroad employee after that. Nice catch.

James, the railroad that I work for has many unsignaled switches. I'm not sure of your inclusion of that point along with derailments; one does not automatically suggest the other. It's true, that after the derailment in one of the Carolinas on the NS that the FRA tightened things involving switches in "dark" (unsignaled) territory, but I think dark switches will always be the norm.

A few years ago, I saw a proposal to signal a line that once had signals but had long since been removed. The cost was substantial: I vaguely remember $150K per mile, which included some capital improvements, but was largely starting from scratch. There are few shortlines or Class 1's that have that sort of money to spend, especially where there is effective dispatching.

I did mention above how bad the track is, but again, it is not an indicator that the line should be closed or that things are really that bad. Reference my posts above. It's not ideal, sure...but the world isn't perfect.

Dave Becker

OK, maybe not signals, but for god sakes, fix the track.

Engineer James, you really need to relax on the subject. Maybe take a break from railfanning for a while. If the railroad wants to fix the track, then they will, don't bitch about it on here because you can't do anything about it. You're not, in any way shape or form, affiliated with the railroad so don't take it so seriously. If you want to whine to anybody about it, do it to the railroad, they will probably just laugh at you and say let us deal with the issues foamer. No offense to you, but you really make your self look ignorant by posting things like this.

Kevin

Nah, I ain't bitchin. Believe me you'd know when I'd do that. OK NS, but let me ask you a question. You have probably looked at the pictures, what do you think?

I've seen worse, on a CSX branch in Maryland. Some of the pics the track looks exceptable, the one with the track all warped looking, looks to be yard trackage. It could use some work, but really if they want to fix the problem then they will. If you think it's a major problem and threatens your's and other's safety then write to them and see what kind of response you get.

Kevin

I don't know of too many real railroaders who think OLS is stupid. To quote the alleged CSX employee, "where has all the commin sence gone?" If you were a real employee with even a little common sense you'd realize that OLS also reaches out to motorists, such as truck drivers, such as gasoline and propane transporters. Such as what we cringe when we see them approaching a crossing and don't draw an easy breath until we're SURE they are going to stop for us. Ditto school buses, and a whole bunch of other things.

I agree people do some awfully dumb things, but if you are so cold you really don't care if they get killed you've got some major problems. If OLS, or any other effort, can help some moron from getting killed or hurt by a train I'm on, I'm all in favor of that program. It's just common sense, no matter how you spell it.