Recent Threats Made Towards Trains

Here's some thoughs I found on another forum. Pretty much he's got it.


Rob,
There are several reasons for this hysteria that we are presently experiencing and none of it can be pinned on any single group. Politics drive most of it but an uneducated and naive public continues to play into the hands of these politicians. The recent "911" hearings in New York City, which to me were no more than a witch hunt, have set the tone for America. As usual, we want it both ways. The public wants to be protected from EVERY possible mishap in life and the present crisis in the insurance business is a direct result of the litigious society in which we live. "Protect me, legislate intelligence into my mindless, reality-show-watching-head and give me more money than I could ever earn in my lifetime if I become injured......after all it could not possibly have been my fault...." Unfortunately, no one has the cojones to tell this nation that we cannot have freedom and a "risk-free" society at the same time. So where does it end? Will more and more freedoms disappear so the politicians can say after the next attack, "See, we did everything possible to protect you." or will we come to our senses and accept that there is a certain amount of risk in our lives, more so since 911? Heck, I have to leave my house and travel 46 miles one way to work. Maybe I can stay home and tell the boss that it is just too risky and dangerous to travel that far in an automobile. Time to dig a bomb shelter in the backyard, home-school the kids, start a hydroponic garden and work from home. Hooray for direct deposit and internet shopping..... Sorry for the rant.

Don C.

STEAM ON
/--OOO--:-oo--oo-

0-6-0, Don C.

Great paragraph. If I might summarize:

Live free or die!

Makes you wonder who's really winning the war on terror doesn't it?

Its sad but 15 minutes after 9/11 started, i already had a feeling there would be the classic laywer/politician blame game, and whaddya know - there was.

As for us railfans. Why the negative attitude toward us? Just as people like to look at cars, trucks, astrology, flowers, etc, we like to watch trains.

An observant and alert railfan (having a more trained eye than the average trackside resident) might notice something out of the ordinary and perhaps avert a disaster.

Chaser; I concur. No doubt railfans(real ones anyway)are an asset to
to Roads. Their law enforcement people are already streched to the limit
as it is. Could more eyes be bad?. Trackside I sometimes look at stacks
and think which one has the explosives in it. Seems to me the focus should
be on the terminals,which I'm sure it is and not some fan with a camera.
Someday I hope these knee jerk,idiotic and pillow fluffing reactions will
pass and common sense will again rule the day. FAN AWAY!!!!

STEAM ON
/--OOO--:-oo--oo-

Good points by all. I don’t intend to curtail my railfanning activities, but I am going to be a lot more selective about where I go, and be prepared to be questioned. I have no problem providing identification, because I have nothing to hide. I do have an issue with officers trying to tell me I cannot photograph or watch trains from public property. I’ll move on if requested, but not before I get the officer’s name and badge number. We cannot sit still for that sort of unwarranted harassment.

I also believe all railfans need to be extra careful these days about doing their fanning and photography from public property only. A certain amount of trespassing was acceptable in the past, but must be avoided now. Yeah, I know, it’s tempting sometimes to walk on RR property to get a better view of that unusual locomotive near the yard entrance or to get a better photo angle with that tower in the shot, but that kind of behavior is going to be reported now more than ever. If you’re caught trespassing, you will not be able to rely on your right to photograph trains from public property and will be opening the door to a lot more aggravation (not to mention possible arrest).

The biggest issue these days is getting the local authorities and the public at large to see railfanning as a legitimate hobby. I’m afraid that many people still look at us and wonder why grown adults like to watch ‘choo-choo trains’. Frankly, I’m just as mystified as to why people like NASCAR and birdwatching, but I don’t look at those folks as if there’s something wrong with them. In particular, we need to convince police to view us not as a threat but as good citizens who can help them keep an eye on things.

Jim D.

Good point about the many other hobbies out there. When I was a teen I worked at a local supermarket in WNY that rhymes with cops coincidentally and starts with T.

Long story short. One of my managers said "thats somthing you do at Christmas time" in re: my train hobby.

Golly, it was nice to know it was ok to like trains at least part of the year!
I almost felt like some sort of hellish dorky freak with the look he gave me.

LOL

Speaking of things for the NMRA to do....there ya go.
Public education on the hobby! :o)

I wonder if that guy is still stocking supermarket shelves managing 16-25 year olds some 10 years later? Ha! Ha!

I like your response, 0-6-0, and I wish that attitude was more commonly expressed. I do hazardous waste cleanups for a living, and constantly butt my head on the wall trying to explain to people that there is no such thing as a risk free existence.

There is a huge difference between being queried or questioned by police while railfanning and the wholesale bans on photography that are being considered or actually imposed. I have no problem at all with having an officer approach me to check out what I'm doing. Raifanning IS an odd activity (simply because there aren't all that many of us) and in the current climate, I can easily understand somebody thinking I'm up to no good.

But once I establish my harmlessness, I expect to be left alone if I am on public property and obeying the law.

A few years ago, there was actually a federal court case that established the right to take photos from public property. The principle was that "the camera is an extension of the eye" as the court held, and consequently you can legally photograph anything you can legally see. As long as you're on your own property or public property, that is.

For those of you who have some reasonable opinions on this subject...read my post in this forum under the topic Railfanning the Buffalo Area.

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... c&start=15

WNYRailfan

At What Price Should Freedom be Sacrificed for Safety?

Freedom unfortunately requires a degree of risk.
Yet most Americans believe you can have safety and still be 100% free. This is not true. Freedom comes at a price. Politicians will tell you otherwise, afterall, that is what the majority of Americans want to hear. It borders between being naive and ignorant.

Restricting our freedoms and trying to create a police state is exactly the goal is of terrorism. We must learn to live with risk if we are to remain free. We cannot continue down this path. To do so means only those in power win because eventually a police state could exist.

They (politicians) are willing to take my camera and thus my fundamental freedom to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" but the majority of them won't dare try to take my gun. Maybe its because guns have a lobby (no problem there, that's democrcacy). Its time freedom has a lobby too, and its called going on with life.

Finally - our forefathers once tangled with the same question. Though in a different context. For those who truly understand this nation's history. (And most people don't anymore) There was a thing called the "French & Indian War." The colonists asked England at the time to supply troops to protect us (see "Safety") from the French and their Native-American allies. England gladly helped out. But there was a high cost - so England started to tax the colonists on everything and gave them no voice in Parliament or with the King. This taxation without representation was a form of lost freedom. Hence we then had the Revolution.

We can never be safe if we want to remain free. We just need to be prepared to deal with whatever happens.

Jeff Turner
Shrewsbury, MA
5/28/2004

All I can say is:

"Those who would sacrafice liberty for security deserve neither" -Ben Franklin

I am not altering my plans either. The park police should know better as Bear Mountain has been a hangout for rail photographers for years. Also Bear Mountain is a bird sanctuary, what are they going to do, ban photography of birds as well?? THIS INSANITY HAS GOT TO STOP!!!!

Otto Vondrak wrote:No need to alter your plans, and no need to stop taking pictures of trains. Taking pictures of trains is not illegal. The police cannot confiscate your camera or your film without a court order. They can ask you to leave or move along from your present location. Always cooperate with police but DO NOT EVER hand over your camera or film. THAT is against the law, and you are protected by the Constitution from such intrusions.

As always, be careful, be alert, and dont make a nusiance of yourself.

-otto-