by mtuandrew
Moderator Note: moved a couple posts from the Pres. Wm Flynn thread.
Railroad Forums
Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman
Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:56 pm It is always a better idea. There is no time when single level is better.Disagree.
eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:44 am Disagree.Weight of a Superliner sleeper is 80-85 tons, of a Viewliner sleeper is around 60 tons. Note, a Superliner II sleeper weighs about 5 tons less than a Superliner I sleeper.
Being able to use the same type of cars on all routes in/out of NYP and CUS would cut down the total number of cars needed systemwide.
Right now, with Amtrak running at less than 50% load factors across more track miles than they're running above 50%, the extra weight of the double deckers winds up burning more fuel, and probably adds to wear/tear on track because the cars are 25%+ heavier.
eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:40 pmWhy in the world would you suggest buying new single level equipment rather than simply running fewer coaches, if Amtrak really is running such low load factors?
I get that you want more seats to defray costs, but that model only works if you're able to actually fill those seats... Amtrak barely manages 50% on the LD network, so why would you purposely carry more seats than needed?...
There's a reason the A320/B737 remain the workhorses of the industry, and why the 747, MD11, and A380 are almost extinct.
Amtrak needs that sweet spot in the middle, and it's name is single level equipment...
eolesen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:46 am The highest load factor routes are locked into using single level equipment because of the tunnel profiles on the East Coast.Have you ever rode in a coach or sleeper room or roomette with a three night trip? I have! Amtrak's Texas Eagle coach and sleeper cars going all the way between Chicago and Los Angeles do so - on a thrice a week schedule. After the third night no manner the season having just one restroom clean enough to use and fully operational is lucky with the multiple restrooms available on Superliners. I can't imagine the new Viewliner sleepers with just one restroom available for all the roomettes ever surviving a three night trip - or even a two night trip. And without a shower stall for the roomettes and coaches - who could survive the odors being emitted by all the smelly passengers by the fourth day?
Whatever Amtrak buys needs to be capable of running system-wide, vs. having what amounts to an east/west fleet today.
Utilization matters when you're talking hundreds of cars -- today you can't take a consist coming out of NYC and send it to LAX or SFO via CHI. Buying a new single level LD fleet would allow that.
eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:44 amBeing able to use the same type of cars on all routes in/out of NYP and CUS would cut down the total number of cars needed systemwide.I think Mr. Olesen's thought should be paramount in new equipment procurement.
electricron wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:27 am Have you ever rode in a coach or sleeper room or roomette with a three night trip? I have! Amtrak's Texas Eagle coach and sleeper cars going all the way between Chicago and Los Angeles do so - on a thrice a week schedule. After the third night no manner the season having just one restroom clean enough to use and fully operational is lucky with the multiple restrooms available on Superliners. I can't imagine the new Viewliner sleepers with just one restroom available for all the roomettes ever surviving a three night trip - or even a two night trip. And without a shower stall for the roomettes and coaches - who could survive the odors being emitted by all the smelly passengers by the fourth day?Really good points. Maybe we should rethink a low-profile Superliner? From what people are saying there are two major problems with a <15' bi-level. One is the overhead luggage and the other is the upper bunk situation.
The reason why Superliners are better for Amtrak's very long trains is the number of restrooms in each car - plus the shower - on the lower levels of the two level fleet. To provide the same number of restrooms and a shower with the Viewliner II, they will have to loose a few more roomettes - or keep the toilet facilities in every room and roomette and loose just one roomette for a shower stall. More akin to the existing Viewliner I design instead of the new Viewliner II design removing the toilet from the roomettes. The bottom line would be each car - including the coaches - having a smaller capacity resulting in longer trains. The reason why the new Viewliner II design could work is that their longest trip takes only one night.
There's a reason why Santa Fe was considered the premiere train between Los Angeles and Chicago in the 50s and 60s - and why Amtrak chose Superliners for its' western fleet in the 70s. Those double level Hi-Liners moved those restrooms and their odors to their own level below the seats - which Superliners improved upon. Keeping everything on the same level is going to smell very ripe after a few nights - and the shortest cross country trip will take at least three nights.