New Superliners

Since now you can expect to have a "seatmate" if you are single traveler, couldn't they have added center arm rests?

You know; yourspace, myspace kind of stuff.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:30 pm Since now you can expect to have a "seatmate" if you are single traveler, couldn't they have added center arm rests?
You know; yourspace, myspace kind of stuff.

Most Superliner trains coach cars run fairly empty at night, center armrests would destroy the better sleeping arrangements using double seats as a make shift bed. The seats are huge relative to what one gets on a bus or jetliner, center arms rests are not needed, imho.

How do I know if I was in a superliner 1 or 2 sleeper.

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:52 pm

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:30 pm Since now you can expect to have a "seatmate" if you are single traveler, couldn't they have added center arm rests?
You know; yourspace, myspace kind of stuff.

Most Superliner trains coach cars run fairly empty at night, center armrests would destroy the better sleeping arrangements using double seats as a make shift bed. The seats are huge relative to what one gets on a bus or jetliner, center arms rests are not needed, imho.

You're right because it's impossible to make arm rests that fold up out of the way.

Seriously, it's a feature I would like. Best of both worlds if they had that. (of course one more thing to maintain. But airlines do it all the time.)

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:38 pm How do I know if I was in a superliner 1 or 2 sleeper.

Go to the main vestibule area, look for the builder's plate, then read who the manufacturer was.
Pullman Standard = Superliner I
Bombardier = Superliner 2

Additionally, all Superliner 2 sleepers have names of States on their doors between cars. Just 2 Superliner 1 sleepers have names.
Here's a list...
http://www.on-track-on-line.com/amtkrinf-suprname.shtml

bostontrainguy wrote:

Alphaboi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:25 pm Roomettes could easily be marketed as a First Class daytime travel option (as long as they ditch the in-room toilets.)

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You know they don't have those on Superliners, right?

Yes. I was addressing the idea of sleeping cars that could be coverted to coaches down the line . The wouldn't be really necessary with all roomette cars. Granted they'd still need an ADA bedroom under current regulations.

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What Amtrak's feelings about LD (love/hate) are don't matter all that much; it's what Congress is willing to fund. Amtrak said "pony up" for daily LD service; Congress did. LD trains run through a LOT of states. While the momentum is in new service and corridors, I don't see LD dying any time soon.

jp1822 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:13 am

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:13 pm According to Amtrak the jury is still out on the superliners. They are currently being “refreshed” - and rebuild/life extension IS being considered as an option along with replacement - they seem to feel the cars could have a lot more life in them with a rebuild - the question is what is more cost effective. I would not be surprised to see a rebuild occur coupled with asking Siemens to produce a sleeper variant compatible with the Viewliners - and then convert trains like the CONO and Capitol to single level and dedicate the rebuilt Superliners for the Auto Train and super long haul western trains .

I can't imagine Amtrak ordering new LD equipment. The love/hate relationship here persists. They came to close to sealing the fate of the LD trains with COVID, but now a rebound seems to have occurred. For how many more innings - who knows, but even traditional dining is returning to the six main western long hauls. I'd say that they continue to be candidates for "refreshed" Superliners, while, as you mention, that the City of New Orleans, Capitol Limited, and even Texas Eagle return to a single level consist. I am a bit surprised Amtrak hasn't already done this with the Capitol Limited with the arrival of additional Viewliner II sleepers and the Viewliner Diner. They are a little short on Amfleet II cars, but there's ways around that. A little of the rob Peter to pay Paul on the long distance day trains and also perhaps converting a some Amfleet I's back to low density coaches - wouldn't be the first time! Shifts all Superliners West of Chicago once again. Will Amtrak really assign out all 75 of its Viewliner sleepers (less some reserve number)? The original distribution of the Viewliner II order doesn't seem to be going anywhere, so convert the Capitol at least. Additional single level sleepers of some sort, a Viewliner Diner/Cafe car, and a new low density single level coach and it's more of reality than a possibility.

west point wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:01 am Have to wonder what mainly is the EU's sudden change to overnight services. This poster really though that overnights in the EU's + UK was a goner. Now we see a rush to get more sleepers. Does anyone know how much of the old sleeper cars survived the cutback. Have to wonder if refurbishing some over there is even possible,

What is confusing is Amtrak's not using what equipment it has especially sleepers ? The sky high prices certainly would appear to be revenue positive ?
My train the Crescent is sold out until Saturday. Both coach and sleeper, no excuse nt to have more equipment ?
Capitol appears to not operating next 3 days?

Just putting in a bit of European perspective.
The resurgence of night trains in Europe is largely led by Austrian state railways ÖBB. The EU itself has very little to do with it except for regulating the rules.
After DB (German state railways) folded their night train operations ÖBB took over both most of the equipment and several of the routes. They are however getting new equipment for several routes (recently activated their options on the current order for new sleepers), though not completely phasing out the old DB equipment yet and also using it for starting new routes without investing in new cars from day 1.
This is all done largely on a commercial basis, as the EU forbids one state to subsidize cross country trains in another state (though other said other states are allowed to chip in for the part of operation within their borders). DB seems to have gotten out of business at exactly the wrong time, and ÖBB saw the market was turning.
Other states are slowly getting back on. Sweden and Denmark has a current tender out for two Stockholm-Hamburg and Malmö-Brussels trains that everybody expects ÖBB to win in some cooperation with Danish DSB and Swedish SJ. I think the Dutch are also economically involved somehow in the recent ÖBB expansion to Amsterdam.
There are a couple of commercial non-state actors as well, like Swedish Snälltoget which is running Stockholm-Malmö-Berlin and recently rerouted through Denmark. They are running with refurbished heritage equipment (I forgot exactly from where and how old). They are however only running on select dates during high season. It's a transport, not some excursion train, but aimed solely on tourists.
As for a more concerted European/EU-led effort, the German chairmanship (it rotates between the countries) last year put out a proposal for a long distance network of long day trains and overnight trains capitalizing on the growing high speed network. But so far it's only ideas on paper and no descisions has been taken.
The relevance to the US is that at least in Europe, and probably the rest of the world, overnight sleeper trains seems to have bottomed out and the trend reversed, although from a very low level. It's not excactly a tsunami, but investments are being made and routes are being ressurected.
Which for the US, though always a bit behind on rr trends, probably means that the time for the drumrolls have come and passed - unless you want to be even more out of timing than DB. And that also means that at some time new equipment has to be ordered for the western routes - single or bilevel.

Mr. Trainviews, I note that like myself, you have participated at the Night Trains topic over at Mr. Benton's Worldwide Railfan Forum.

While I am of record at that topic how astounded I am that the OBB Night Jet initiative has come to the point that they are ordering new equipment and that it has expanded beyond Austrian borders, I doubt if that means the same initiative can be, or should be, replicated over here.

Austria was the likely State rail system for any such initiative. First, they have a 630 klick line haul (400 miles) that they can call their own (Feldkirche-Vienna) and they do not have HSR - albeit Higher SR 220 klick 136mph. Therefore with the EU rule you note that any Night Jet service must include distance within Austria, the East West boundaries of Austria make such attainable.

Further, I don't think that Swedish kid has the "pull" over here she has "over there". It will be interesting to see if she becomes a, say, AOC of European politics.

Now let us note that, while there are some Deluxe rooms within the new Night Jet configuration, most of the space is Couchette. That for me was a 1990 "involuntary" experience unlike any I've had before or wish to have again. There is the Frommer backpacking crowd in Europe and OBB wishes to pitch their service to them. Amtrak is not interested in pitching Private Rooms to whatever of that segment is over here.

Finally, let us consider that the Class I's have had fifty years to realize that they signed "the Faustian pact with the Devil" on A-Day. I think Kubler Ross Phase Five - Acceptance has come upon the industry with regards to the existing Amtrak services. But for any new services - even ones that make sense, such as Mobile-New Orleans, they are going to "dig in and fight".

The Swedish Snälltoget train running from Belen to Stockholm can be seen in this video -



The equipment appears to be refurbished 1970's era coachette cars.