Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

east point wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:46 am Richmond - Portland service has only one really viable route. Richmond to New Haven -Diesel Springfield - Worcester - Grand route to North Station ( BON ) - Back in to BON then the DownEaster route to Portland. The only problem at BON will be southbound train pulling into BON and possible diesel exhaust problems. Now getting CSX to agree to even one round trip over Worcester - Springfield may be a problem ? That route needs consistent Amtrak service with qualified crews for the times that the coast route is closed due to weather or other reasons so Regionals can detour over the Springfield route.

Since MNRR has constrained capacity New Haven - New Rochelle due to the many draw bridges needing replacement getting additional slots in the foreseeable future ( 2040 -2050 ) may be a real problem. For example the present Walk Bridge replacement will close the 4 track segment over the replacement to 3 tracks and for several times just 2 tracks. That is because replacing the swing bridge with 2 separate lift bridges requires the 2 northern tracks to be displaced northward several feet ( 10 - 14 ft ? ). Once the northern lift bridge is in service the south lift bridge May (?) follow present alignments and not require as long closing one or two of the south tracks.

But once CT DOT gets both Walk lift bridges in full operation we can probably expect the DOT to start on the next bridge that needs a new lift bridge replacement with the same constraints of just 2 tracks in service at times.

That routing in and around Boston will take forever. The Grand Junction is slow running. The wyeing of the northbound train at BET is possible, but again--real clumsy.
I suppose, though, that that is better than getting off at Back Bay, and taking the Orange Line over to North Station, especially if you're a senior citizen with luggage. I normally just take a taxi from South to North.

What about a routing over P&W from New London to Worcester?

That is a very interesting idea. Notable that it avoids CSX.

Also significant that it would serve Mohegan Sun.

There are two lines out of NL that have been on CtDOT's back burner; the other line is the former routing of the Montrealer. It would certainly help with an inland routing....

gokeefe wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:45 pm That is a very interesting idea. Notable that it avoids CSX.

It would also likely generate some decent traffic to/from Worcester and points south and west. As I've pointed out elsewhere, WOR-NLC passenger service actually survived right up to A-Day in 1971.

The B&M between Worcester and Ayer is in pretty rough shape from what I understand, though. Would take a fair amount of $$ to get it up to Amtrak shape.

Is it all dark territory between New London and Ayer, by the way?

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:23 pm What about a routing over P&W from New London to Worcester?

I thought of that. Also use the P&W track between Providence and Worcester as a possibility? The Providence area has lots of people of Canadian heritage. So, too, does parts of Maine.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:56 pm There are two lines out of NL that have been on CtDOT's back burner; the other line is the former routing of the Montrealer. It would certainly help with an inland routing....

The NECR route [of the Montrealer] crosses the CSX line at Palmer, MA . It's a diamond, and it's diagonal. There's no possibility of building a connection between the two.

Rockingham Racer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:03 pm

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:56 pm There are two lines out of NL that have been on CtDOT's back burner; the other line is the former routing of the Montrealer. It would certainly help with an inland routing....

The NECR route [of the Montrealer] crosses the CSX line at Palmer, MA . It's a diamond, and it's diagonal. There's no possibility of building a connection between the two.

New London-Worcester on the P&W makes much more sense than New London-Palmer on the NECR anyway. Serving the second largest city in New England vs. serving the 6th largest town in Hampden County.

This is actually the traditional routing for through Maine service from the south in pre-Amtrak days-- the PRR/NH/B&M/MEC East Wind, Bar Harbor Express, State of Maine etc. all used it. The P&W/PAR connect end-to-end at Worcester Union Station.

Completely agree; the Palmer route makes no sense, I only noted it as a previous Amtrak route, and one that has been looked at as part of the Knowledge Corridor.

Worcester has possibilities, though. The fact that it was a favoured route, albeit pre-A-day, adds credibility.

The question is: through train, or branch?

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:23 pm What about a routing over P&W from New London to Worcester?

That goes right through the Navy's submarine base at Groton. Would the Navy have a problem?

I'd forgotten about that. I'd expect not, though, with proper security.

Couldn't Anderson have meant "each station from Richmond to Brunswick will be served be a train that does not skip any Amtrak stations along its route"? I.e. the Downeaster will continue to run as now, making all stops, and there will be some all-stops trains on the NEC and as far as Richmond? That seems a lot more reasonable interpretation, since it's just an operational choice, and he was talking about operations. Anything involving a through train from Brunswick to Richmond or Portland to Newport News or whatever would be at least a medium-sized infrastructure project.

Arborwayfan wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:15 pm Couldn't Anderson have meant "each station from Richmond to Brunswick will be served be a train that does not skip any Amtrak stations along its route"?

I guess. But then why not say "Maine to Miami"?

The Richmond service is integrated into the NEC in a way that other trains including the Downeaster are not. So by putting Maine into the same bucket as Richmond, it makes it sound like he's talking about something new.

But who knows. There are many ways to interpret an oracle.

I don't know the distance from Richmond to Brunswick, ME, but if it's under 750 miles, which I am pretty sure it is, it will be up to the states to fund it. Good luck with that.

In any case, Worcester is the second largest city in New England. It should have more intercity train connectivity that it does currently, IMO. MassDOT is draggin its butt on the plan to increase service west of Worcester. That will require a conversation with CSX, and the doubling of the track where it's currently single. That also opens up the long talked about Boston to Montreal service via Springfield and White River Jct.

But I digress.