Amtrak Heritage Diners Thread

Or maybe Amtrak should keep them, gut the kitchens, install more tables, and use them as the long sought after "table cars" on slower routes.

How about:
-Amtrak deeds the entire Heritage dining car fleet, some number of baggage cars, and the full parts store to VIA. VIA runs, rebuilds, sells, or parts them out as they see fit.
-VIA formally includes Rouses Point - Montreal as part of its national network, and negotiates a far better deal for Amtrak with CN. In the long run, they agree to handle negotiation and share improvement costs for a renewed Montrealer.

Win-win, no?

VIA might be interested in some of them. Presently, Amtrak has 20 Heritage Diners. VIA has 9 Budd built ex-CP Diners. I'd be very surprised if VIA bought all 20 used Amtrak diners. Of course, having more diners in their roster might make it easier for VIA to change their present policy of thrice weekly service for the Canadian back to daily service, or at least increase the number of trains each week.

lirr42 wrote:Or maybe Amtrak should keep them, gut the kitchens, install more tables, and use them as the long sought after "table cars" on slower routes.

Whole goal is to reduce the costs of maintenance. There's really no reason to keep them.

Keep the Heritage dining cars, even those "not needed."

So that if/when the new generation of cars proves to have serious design flaws -- or simply falls apart within a decade thanks to the prevailing 21st Century "Not Built to Last" corporate mindset -- Amtrak will still have enough dining cars to serve its long distance passengers.

Once the Heritage cars are sold off, they're gone.

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Tadman wrote:So now that there are some new View Diners on the way, and a recently refurbished fleet of heritage diners, is there going to be a "bargain of the century" situation wherein private owners and Class 1 business train fleets get virtually new diners for nothing?

In the "private owners" group there may still be some dinner trains, museums, & scenic operators like the GCR that may be getting some "new" diners?

The way things are going with VIA, they'll be needing less cars, not more. So, you guys think this 60-70 year old relics actually have some life left in them? Maybe for some low-mileage dinner trains or museums, but not for daily transit use.

EastCleveland wrote:Keep the Heritage dining cars, even those "not needed."

So that if/when the new generation of cars proves to have serious design flaws -- or simply falls apart within a decade thanks to the prevailing 21st Century "Not Built to Last" corporate mindset -- Amtrak will still have enough dining cars to serve its long distance passengers.

Once the Heritage cars are sold off, they're gone.

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And again, good riddance. I highly doubt the cost of maintaining them for a decade (you can't simply leave them parked at Bear and do nothing for 10 years) would ever be worth it. Better to take that same money, put it savings and spend it on newer cars if the new ones fall apart.

There's simply a point where it just doesn't take economic sense to keep trying to keep these things running (and at slower speeds than the long-distance trains they hang on to.)

(remember, it's NOT just the maintenance savings, it's also the fact it's easier to schedule a Silver Service train at the same speeds as Regionals, than 15mph per slower for top speeds)

They have working seats, which are in short supply at certain times of the year. I would suggest keeping several for use on long distance trains during holidays and summer weekends, at least until 2016 when some of the Horizon cars are freed up. But if Amtrak is to keep them, they should become revenue cars with the seats sold at the top bucket rate.

gaspeamtrak wrote: I think Via will get first crack at those diners. They are quite short of them. Also got God forbid if the have and accident with the " Canadian" they would be up the creek with out a paddle!
I think they should at least give it some though and look at them if Amtrak wants to deal with them...

If VIA is short of diners then yeah, seems like a no-brainer to pick up a few of 'em at least. I'm sure VIA would try to select the best of the bunch. My bet would be a few go to Canada, a couple to private car buyers, and maybe a few get stripped and scrapped.

These cars are ancient, most are well over 60 years old. They use different parts than the current equipment uses, are obselete and probably need much work in order to have any future anywhere. I don't think it is worth it. Maybe one or two will be sold to a tourist railroad but as far as Amtrak or Via, I doubt it very much. Ride and eat in them now before it is too late and photograph them now again before it is too late.
Noel Weaver

I don't know if VIA will grab any, but unless there are major problems tourist lines as well as various PV concerns will probably snap up most of these cars. Dinner trains are in vogue and generate significant revenue for tourist operators. Many services have to make do with off site meal prep and other ad hoc methods to get the food to the passengers on board the train. Ex-Amtrak diners would allow considerably more flexibility than some converted LIRR bar car as well as a significant step forward in terms of apparent age. If worse comes to worse Gateway Rail Services will probably grab any that remain. Scrap value is only around 10-20k and Gateway's whole business model is providing potential PV owners with that railcar of their dreams. Being able to create a rolling private restaurant/bar will appeal to the younger crowd of millionaires and billionaires who will eventually enter the market. If these were coaches I'd worry, but "specialty" cars like lounges, parlors, diners, domes and sleepers retain significant value.

Reading this thread, I didn't realize the heritage cars dropped the speed down a full 15 MPH. What is the reason for that? Different truck design?

And is it correct that since the only heritage cars on a LD trains on the NEC are the diners (and I guess Bags) when they are removed from service will that allow the LDs to then fully operate at 125?

I take it the Viewliners are authorized for max speed?

In the Interstate Commerce Commission report on the accident at Chase (Gunpow), Md., an Amtrak representative stated that the lower speed limit was for passenger comfort. In another post here, Mr. Jhdeasy mentioned an informal answer from Amtrak about what they would require to increase the speed limit on a Private Car.

train2 wrote:Reading this thread, I didn't realize the heritage cars dropped the speed down a full 15 MPH. What is the reason for that? Different truck design?

And is it correct that since the only heritage cars on a LD trains on the NEC are the diners (and I guess Bags) when they are removed from service will that allow the LDs to then fully operate at 125?

I take it the Viewliners are authorized for max speed?

My understanding is that it's probably trucks and design and simply the cost of getting them to work at 125mph.

And yes, the goal (again as I understand it) is to get the Viewliners up to 125mph and so all trains on the NEC can operate with a similar profile. (obviously some will make stops others won't and that will impact things).