Amtrak Heritage Diners Thread

[Jersey_Mike]

It's been posted here before that the reason for the 110mph cars is that the Heritage trucks have only disc brakes instead of the disc-tread combination the Amfleets and other more modern cars have. This is not a brake force issue either, but one of brake heat dissipation. It has also been explained that the Viewliners should be good for 125, but were never certified for that speed as they would never be operating on 125mph trains.

I suspect that the LD trains will continue to be scheduled for 110mph to handle Private Cars and to allow for time to be made up.

[JimBoylan]

It's been posted here before that the reason for the 110mph cars is that the Heritage trucks have only disc brakes instead of the disc-tread combination the Amfleets and other more modern cars have.

Have all of the original Amfleet I cars been retrofitted with tread and disc brakes? When new, they had no tread brakes, only inboard disk brakes.

[R36 Combine Coach]

These cars are ancient, most are well over 60 years old. They use different parts than the current equipment uses, are obselete and probably need much work in order to have any future anywhere. I don't think it is worth it. Maybe one or two will be sold to a tourist railroad but as far as Amtrak or Via, I doubt it very much. Ride and eat in them now before it is too late and photograph them now again before it is too late.

Ages range from 55 (1958) to 66 (1947).

[Matt Johnson]

It's been posted here before that the reason for the 110mph cars is that the Heritage trucks have only disc brakes instead of the disc-tread combination the Amfleets and other more modern cars have.

Have all of the original Amfleet I cars been retrofitted with tread and disc brakes? When new, they had no tread brakes, only inboard disk brakes.

Huh, I never noticed it before, but apparently the Amfleets do have tread brakes as well.

[DutchRailnut]

The NEC version of Amfleet always had both, tread and Disk.
The Long distance version only had tread brakes originally.

[ngotwalt]

I hope the Portola Museum can get 8551, a former CB&Q diner built for the California Zephyr.
Cheers,
Nick

[ApproachMedium]

The heritage cars need to go! They are beyond a maintenance headache, they are also a customer service nightmare with their plagued refrigeration systems that cant seem to stay working, electrical systems that are all pieced together and no two cars are even closely alike.

The historical societies will have first pick at the cars, pending they have the cash to buy them and get them off the property. The sooner they leave the faster amtrak can start maybe making money on diners instead of loosing it every time an entire car of food spoils when the fridges fail.

[jp1822]

If VIA hadn't been butchered just recently, I would have said that they would have grabbed some of these diners, as VIA had claimed that under their former operating schedule, diners were something they were running short on. But with the Canadian running three days a week in peak season, and two days a week most of the rest of the season, I am just not seeing it. Even the train to Gaspe is at risk of not returning - although only one diner was assigned to that train.

Hopefully Amtrak is cautious is the Heritage Diner's retirement. They need to make sure the new Viewliner Diners 1) come online and 2) can handle sleeper and coach passengers given potential additional capacity if sleepers are added. Having a few backup Heritage Diners in reserve may be worthwhile. They'd also make for nice lounge cars on the single level LD trains, but I realize this would slow the consist down on the NEC and require continued maintenance to a class of cars Amtrak wants to get rid of once and for all. Hopefully the Cardinal will get a Viewliner Diner. If not, it would be nice if they got a Heritage Diner.

But I think some poster are right - they are either heading off to storage at some far away land, to be sold as scrap, or be used as part of diner trains.

[mtuandrew]

What are the chances that Amtrak will offer these cars en bloc to a state interested in off-Corridor regional service, and send them through Beech Grove to become reasonably standard coaches and lounges? I'm not sure what it would take to do such a conversion.

[Jersey_Mike]

There are plenty of Heritage and other HEP equipped coaches floating around to make conversions unnecessary. Moreover the value in Diners is that they are Diners and people will buy them for that reason.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. Stephens, could such a conversion as you immediately proposed be done? Of course it could.

Would such be reasonable and practical? Jersey Mike just answered that.

The main issue would be the absence of vestibules in the Diners, which obviously would be needed in a second life as a Coach. The other, and even though Budd products are indestructible (just like somewhere in this world, there remains a DC-3 certified as airworthy and maybe in scheduled service), the starting point is a carbody, in at least one case - the ex-NYC Diner in the 85XX 'Heritage' series, now 66 years old.

[Greg Moore]

What are the chances that Amtrak will offer these cars en bloc to a state interested in off-Corridor regional service, and send them through Beech Grove to become reasonably standard coaches and lounges? I'm not sure what it would take to do such a conversion.

I'm sure if someone writes a big enough check Amtrak will do whatever they want.

[Jersey_Mike]

The scrap value of a stainless steel railcar is only about $20,000. Unless Amtrak hoards them these diners will get snapped up like hotcakes. Don't hold your breath about the baggage cars however.

[mtuandrew]

Mr. Stephens, could such a conversion as you immediately proposed be done? Of course it could.

Would such be reasonable and practical? Jersey Mike just answered that.

The main issue would be the absence of vestibules in the Diners, which obviously would be needed in a second life as a Coach. The other, and even though Budd products are indestructible (just like somewhere in this world, there remains a DC-3 certified as airworthy and maybe in scheduled service), the starting point is a carbody, in at least one case - the ex-NYC Diner in the 85XX 'Heritage' series, now 66 years old.

Duly noted - thanks, Mr. Norman and Jersey Mike. I don't well know the market for used passenger cars, and having in mind the sleeper-to-coach conversions various heritage lines performed on their heavy- and lightweight stock, I felt it was a valid question. Perhaps I've taken too much to heart the periodic crying by Amtrak of "no room at the inn", in terms of the rolling stock they are prepared to offer to states intending to start or expand service.

In re: baggage cars, I'm sure some outfit somewhere could use a supply of trucks, frames, and running gear... but that's not officially part of this discussion either.

[ApproachMedium]

There is one diner, that started life as a lounge car and did have a vestibule. I think it is 8532 or 8530. It was an ex pennsy car I think.

It would be a shame if some of these cars were not grabbed up by the historical societies. The original leather shades are still in the cars that do not have the temonisa rebuilds. They are just blocked over with stainless covers. Theres plenty of other little goodies but the kitchens are gone.

As for the baggage cars, the 1700 series are shot. They will certainly be cut up as they are taken out. The real baggage cars could be sold and collected. I know theres at least one ACF smoothside stainless bag thats still in really good shape on the rails.