• Portland Maine Passenger Stations

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

Moderators: MEC407, NHN503

  by markhb
 
As usual, I hate to reply to my own post, but I just discovered this article from The Forecaster today, covering the Transportation Committee meeting I attended. The article concentrates on the last point I had mentioned: the committee wanting a more-public process from NNEPRA as they move forward.
"The Transportation Committee is looking for a really robust public process," [District 2 (West End) City Councilor David] Marshall said. "There's a lot of stakeholders here that need to be heard by the city as we take a position on whether this is the appropriate location for a train station."
  by gokeefe
 
So I guess its fair to say at this point that NNEPRA is looking pretty hard at 'solutions' along Commercial Street or somewhere closer to the Old Port and within walking distance of Congress Street?

Although I know we are all aware of that here I think it still a Big Deal that these ideas are being discussed at that level. It would be a major change for Portland to have trains going downtown (or close to it) once again. I understand the physical distance is quite small but I think there's a large psychological threshold ('crossing the Rubicon') or in this case just St. John Street!

I would compare this in significance (at a minimum psychological if not economic) to running North of Portland. These changes would/will place trains further forward into the collective consciousness of Mainers once again. That's something that should not be underestimated in terms of political impact for these services and rail passenger service proposals going forward from here out.
  by markhb
 
I noticed that the city Transportation Committee has "discussion of rail charge" as the first item on their agenda for Tuesday, and the only background material they provided was the NNEPRA RFQ. I assume that this traces back to the rail staff memo from the previous meeting, but beyond that I have no clue and I am not sure if I'll make it to the meeting this time.

I have to think that, if they go ahead with a new station on Commercial St., they would go with the Yard 1 location rather than the Fish Pier. Street-running the extra distance (notably right across the front of the Gulf of Maine Research Institute), coupled with a non-"working waterfront" use in the midst of the "working waterfront," should kill the Center St/Fish Pier location. Yard 1 at least has the advantage of not having a wharf, so that limits it's waterfront-usage potential given that CoE permits for new dredging and fixed pier construction can be hard to come by, not to mention its closeness to the bridge opening.
  by markhb
 
I did make it to the Transportation Committee meeting; fortunately, the rail item was first up. Again, remember that I am not a professional reporter, although this time I did have a pen and paper with me.

Essentially, the item was initially about this memo from the previous meeting, a proposed charge (apparently submitted by Councilor Marshall) for a Rail Task Force that covered such things as compiling an inventory of Portland rail lines, collating what has gone before in terms of studies, etc. The committee's staff person (whose name I am not going to use here) said that, rather than assembling a committee to do that sort of thing, she was prepared to put together a briefing book for the committee that would take care of a lot of that, using info from the recent Small Starts and Portland North planning docs, and identify what gaps there were between the info she had and the data desired from the proposed charge. She said that she would have it to the committee within two weeks; I hope to be able to get a copy if it isn't online.

Turning to the Downeaster / NNEPRA RFQ, the staffer's initial observation was that it was decidedly Boston-oriented, as opposed to bringing travelers north. She also thought that the extant info from Small Starts / Portland North definitely was not used to inform the document. The largest item of interest in the RFQ, though, was Item 5: Portland Station. The feeling at the meeting was that NNEPRA definitely seems to be concentrating on the West Commercial St. location; Councilor Marshall in particular would like to see a new station, if there is to be one, closer to Center St. and the Old Port (i.e., the Fish Pier parking lot). The same "West Commercial isn't a particular improvement in walkability" argument that has been discussed here was brought up. The staffer has requested that, once the consultant is selected, she be kept notified of their public meetings so that she may attend; she has also asked to be put on the list of people to be notified of NNEPRA BoD meetings.

Some of the discussion revolved around city zoning, and that it's likely that either of the discussed locations could have zoning concerns regarding non-marine passenger transportation facilities; obviously, the city can adjust those policies, but they have to desire to do so first (that's my phrasing, not that of anyone in the meeting).

There was one vote taken at the meeting, but I am going to hold off on mentioning it here for a few days. Beyond that, the chairman plans to devote an entire monthly meeting to rail questions at some point in the next few months; my guess would be during the summer as those agendas are currently open. The intent is to bring in a lot of the interested parties: NNEPRA, Portland Trails, Maine Rail Transit Coalition, etc. It struck me as slightly interesting that Pan-Am was not in the vocalized list, but since it was kind of an off-the-top-of-the-head thing I'm not reading much into it.
  by Froggie
 
Thanks for keeping us posted, as always! :D
  by markhb
 
The item I mentioned that I was not reporting from the Transportation Committee meeting has come to light. The Committee voted unanimously to request the following be placed on the City Council agenda for tonight:
Portland City Council Agenda for April 4, 2011 wrote: Resolve 15-10/11 Resolution Authorizing the City to Request an Invitation to Participate (Tab 24) on the Steering Committee for the Development of the Downeaster Service Development Plan – Sponsored by the Transportation Committee, Councilor Kevin J. Donoghue, Chair.

This Resolution authorizes the City Manager to request that New England Passenger Rail Authority invite the City to participate on the steering committee for the development of the Downeaster Service Development Plan.

Five affirmative votes are required for passage after public comment.
The voluminous packet for the Council meeting is available here and the actual resolution (found on page 146... I don't envy these people) reads in part:
Portland City Council Resolve 15-10/11 As Proposed wrote: WHEREAS, said RFQ references a steering committee, comprised of key members of NNEPRA, MaineDOT, NHDOT, MassDOT, MBTA, Pan Am Railways, Amtrak and other appropriate agencies and parties, which will provide oversight, direction and primary product review during the development of the Plan; and

WHEREAS, the primary service center for the Downeaster in Maine is located at the Portland Transportation Center and changes to that location will be under consideration during the development of the Plan; and

WHEREAS, any service changes including a change in location of a station or crossing that may impact transportation services, traffic, noise and other issues are of concern to the City of Portland;

NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Portland City Council authorizes the City Manager to request that NNEPRA invite the City to participate on the steering committee for the development of the Downeaster Service Development Plan.
Assuming this passes (and it doesn't seem like it will be controversial, although I didn't watch the Council meeting), I'm interested in hearing NNEPRA's response to the City's request.
  by MEC407
 
Speaking of Portland train stations, check out what some developers would like to build on Thompson's Point:

http://www.pressherald.com/news/maine-d ... front.html
  by gokeefe
 
MEC407 wrote:Speaking of Portland train stations, check out what some developers would like to build on Thompson's Point:

http://www.pressherald.com/news/maine-d ... front.html
This is a complete game-changer for NNEPRAs possible plans to move out of the PTC.

Yes, throw in the towel and just go ahead and forget about it.

The NBA D-League basketball team isn't the draw, it's the convention center and concert hall. There is no question this would draw people from Boston for the day, especially if the pitch is "a fraction of the price of the BCEC (Boston Convention and Exhibition Center) with mass transportation access to Boston via train/bus/car.

Since they've gone public with this project I'm assuming that its actually going to get done (not necessarily the case but we'll see). This will likely provide the Downeaster with the long-awaited source of northbound leisure/business ridership, not to mention likely additional riders because of service to Freeport in 2012.

Touchdown NNEPRA! :-D
  by djlong
 
I'm surprised they didn't mention the local AHL team as possible tennants as well.
  by MEC407
 
The updated article in today's paper said that this proposed center would not have a hockey rink.
  by djlong
 
Then it must be a SMALL building if it's basketball-only. The original article gave me the impression that this would be along the same sized dimensions as the Verizon Wireless Center in Manchester (home of the AHL Monarchs). It just made sense to me that a building would have a better shot at success if it had TWO tennants - but I didn't know what this would mean for the CCCC where the AHL Pirates play now.

Thanks for the clarification.
  by MEC407
 
Another updated article in today's paper:
Portland Press Herald wrote:The first phase of the development calls for two office buildings, a 125-room hotel, a restaurant, a 700-car parking garage, a music hall with seating for 1,000 to 2,000 people, and an event center that would host the Maine Red Claws basketball team, other sporting events, concerts and trade shows.
...
Thompson's Point, which has been on the market for $9.9 million, is a key parcel in the city, with high visibility to people coming into Portland on Interstate 295, planes landing at the Portland International Jetport, and trains and buses arriving at the Portland Transportation Center.
...
The center is "designed for maximum flexibility," the junior Ryan said Thursday, with a 48,000-square-foot building that can seat 3,500 for Red Claws games -- the developers are part of the team's ownership group -- and 4,500 for concerts. There will also be a large amount of floor space for trade shows.
Read more at: http://www.pressherald.com/news/study-s ... 04-29.html
  by gokeefe
 
My favorite line from the above quoted article.
The event center and music hall at Thompson's Point would create the largest convention center north of Boston.
  by markhb
 
djlong wrote:Then it must be a SMALL building if it's basketball-only. The original article gave me the impression that this would be along the same sized dimensions as the Verizon Wireless Center in Manchester (home of the AHL Monarchs). It just made sense to me that a building would have a better shot at success if it had TWO tennants - but I didn't know what this would mean for the CCCC where the AHL Pirates play now.

Thanks for the clarification.
The article in today's paper included a picture of Dan Jennings showing off what appeared to be a possible floor plan for the arena. It looks like most of the seating would be on three sides of the court, with a smaller seating section at one end.
  by gokeefe
 
markhb wrote:
djlong wrote:Then it must be a SMALL building if it's basketball-only. The original article gave me the impression that this would be along the same sized dimensions as the Verizon Wireless Center in Manchester (home of the AHL Monarchs). It just made sense to me that a building would have a better shot at success if it had TWO tennants - but I didn't know what this would mean for the CCCC where the AHL Pirates play now.

Thanks for the clarification.
The article in today's paper included a picture of Dan Jennings showing off what appeared to be a possible floor plan for the arena. It looks like most of the seating would be on three sides of the court, with a smaller seating section at one end.
Hopefully at some point they'll make it clear why they didn't include a rink in the plans. Especially as the developers indicate "flexibility" is one of their main design themes.

I was wondering if perhaps energy costs were one of their primary concerns. There may also have been some kind of design factor that made ice underdesirable. The other possible issue might have been that the Pirates didn't want to downsize into a smaller arena.

Regardless, I'm kind of surprised they haven't already given a very brief soundbite on why they didn't think an ice rink worked for them.

Still no official reaction from NNEPRA yet.
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