Port Washington Branch

I took the LIRR from Bayside to Penn on Sat morning at 9 30 am. While we were stopped at Flushing, a deisel powered double decker train was running the other way. Anyone know why>? I've never seen one on the PW branch before.

Admin Note: edited title for spelling.

See here:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 63&t=70221

oh thanks. Thought it was strange to see that on the PW line. it sucks that we are being cut to once every hour train service. How is that going to work for Rangers games? I never catch the 9:48 pm after a NYR game. I usually take the 10:19 or the 10:48 back to Bayside.

I wonder why the PW branch was never double tracked east of Great Neck.

"I wonder why the PW branch was never double tracked east of Great Neck."

Probably because of the manhasset viaduct.
To Double track it now would cost $$$$$$$$$$.

http://www.kingbridgeco.com/manhasset_viaduct.htm

http://www.kingbridgeco.com/addendum_03_05.htm

The communities east of Great Neck was quite rural and ridership very low in the 1920's which was the last major period of low priced expansion. As stated, the Manhasset Viaduct, which by the way was featured in the 1914 filming of the Perils of Pauline was a major obstacle.

In building the viaduct and the line east of that area, huge beds of clay were encountered. The clay required an immense foundation to be constructed supporting the eastern abutment of the bridge, delaying the opening of the line almost a year. An elaborate drainage system was also required in Great Neck and Manhasset. Poor drainage and roadbed problems still haunt the railroad today in those locations.

Even in the 1920's when money was available for expansion, the cost of double tracking would not have provided a significant benefit.

Today, with Bayside the second busiest station on the railroad and the Port Washington Branch handling the most tonnage of any rail line in the nation, the costs of a double track to the eastern terminal would be difficult to justify.

LongIslandTool wrote:Today, with Bayside the second busiest station on the railroad and the Port Washington Branch handling the most tonnage of any rail line in the nation, the costs of a double track to the eastern terminal would be difficult to justify.

wouldn't those be reasons that would justify double tracking?

It wouldn't do too much other then getting the double track on both ends almost up to the viaduct it's self, Using a gauntlet track may be the cheapest means of extending No. 2 track to Port Washington.
The almost 700 feet of gauntlet track would still plague the branch with delays if a train craps out on the viaduct or beyond the clearance point. This allows both No.1 and No.2 tracks to share the viaduct and extent back to double track almost immediately beyond on both sides. If the viaduct can handle that additional construction with no risks then It would be a major cut in cost for extending double track east of NECK.
NIMBYS and the event in RVC back in 1950 would probably put the can on that before it even got to the multimillion dollar study phase.
Compared to building a new viaduct this would be the cheaper alternative.
NOTE: THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL AND IS JUST FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY AMONG FORUM MEMBERS

ADL6009 wrote:

LongIslandTool wrote:Today, with Bayside the second busiest station on the railroad and the Port Washington Branch handling the most tonnage of any rail line in the nation, the costs of a double track to the eastern terminal would be difficult to justify.

wouldn't those be reasons that would justify double tracking?

I note a bit of sarcasm in Tools last sentence.

No sarcasm, honestly. The single track handles half hour service just fine, the only problems arriving when schedules are disrupted and meets at Great Neck don't go as planned. I doubt we'll ever see a need for better than half hourly service and the branch has yet to be brought up to 12-car trains. Reverse committing is handicapped by the configuration but frankly, those poor folks have traditionally had little say in the policy making.

It's difficult to sell a very costly improvement when the only benefit is improved reliability. The Mainline Third Track proposal and its stumbling blocks illustrates.

When an improvement breaks down to more than $100,000 per rider, it tends to lose credible consideration.

That's why so many of these branches end in single track. The Railroad would love to double track them, but without concrete service enhancement benefits, the expenses simply can't be sold.

LongIslandTool wrote:

Today, with Bayside the second busiest station on the railroad and the Port Washington Branch handling the most tonnage of any rail line in the nation

Please elaborate on these claims. Didn't you mean the second busiest station on the branch, not the railroad? NYP? Jamaica? Flatbush Ave.? Also, where did you get that tonnage figure?

What Tool Means is the amount of people who get on or go to Bayside is the second largest on the railroad.
Obviously more people get off or on at Penn Station as the final terminal.
More people pass through Jamaica then any other station, but it is not their destination.
I cant find the passenger counts for various LIRR stations on line.
Perhaps its not a good idea right now anyway, with the "religion of peace" watching.

llIIlllIIIIllIII is right. Bayside has the second most customers on the Railroad, topped only by Ronkonkoma.

An analysis of busiest stations over the decades tells an interesting story of the eastward growth of suburbia:

Roughly,

In the 1930's the heaviest travel was from Far Rockaway.
In 1940, that top station became Rockville Centre
The late 50's saw Hicksville as the heaviest station.
By 1965, it was Babaylon that lead the pack.
After electrification, Ronkonkoma became the heaviest station.

Bayside was either tie for number one or number two for many decades.

Tonnage is from from the AAR as reported to them by the LIRR in 1988.

Understand now about Bayside, but 1988 figures on tonnage? That's 22 years ago! Anyway, I thought tonnage was used for freight, not people. Well, what do I know?

Port Wash service hasn't changed in 22 years except for weekend service increased from hourly to half hourly and back again several times; tonnage denotes traffic.

Now you know.