Phillipsburg Rail Service—Four Years, $90 Million

Jtgshu wrote:Those numbers seem a bit high...........

I wonder if those numbers include equipment acquisition costs, which really shouldn't be included, because there is the entire fleet of Comet 3s sitting idle and there are diesels and cars being leased out....

So if those costs include equipment, you could probably drop it by about, oh i dunno, $100 million or so?

The numbers are indeed inflated. Even with a dedicated passenger track (and there's no indication as to where to put that west of Bethlehem), costs of $38.8 million per mile just for Easton to Allentown are beyond the pale. No basis is offered for projecting a 22 percent fare recovery ratio, either.

And while Systra writes biased studies, the air quality in northeastern PA disimproves.

The study measured ozone and particle pollution in the air. Monroe, Luzerne and Northampton counties all received failing grades for ozone pollution. Only Northampton had the monitoring ability for particle pollution — which it passed on annual levels but failed for short-term pollution conditions ...

You know, they need to do this project all ready. People will use it enough for it to be worthwhile. Worry about the "rest" of the trip into PA later on.

- A

TREnecNYP wrote:You know, they need to do this project all ready. People will use it enough for it to be worthwhile.

Dare I ask how you know this?

cruiser939 wrote:

TREnecNYP wrote:You know, they need to do this project all ready. People will use it enough for it to be worthwhile.

Dare I ask how you know this?

There are countless people i've talked to who want this service both for work/school and to visit family. It would also allow more simple shuttle service to/from ABE.

- A

TREnecNYP wrote:

cruiser939 wrote:

TREnecNYP wrote:You know, they need to do this project all ready. People will use it enough for it to be worthwhile.

Dare I ask how you know this?

There are countless people i've talked to who want this service both for work/school and to visit family. It would also allow more simple shuttle service to/from ABE.

- A

I'd be more content with either an MOS to Hampton or Alpha before considering the trek to Easton - westward. Right now NJ Transit should be serving more of Jersey (and I think the MOS on the Cut-Off is a bit pathetic)

Roadgeek Adam wrote:I'd be more content with either an MOS to Hampton or Alpha before considering the trek to Easton - westward. Right now NJ Transit should be serving more of Jersey (and I think the MOS on the Cut-Off is a bit pathetic)

What i'd like to know, is if they could get some money from freight and let them run over the new tracks as well. I know they have freight action in easton still, not as much as when the steel mill was going full blast obviously, but there's still some action. I mean if the freights are speed limited on the current routes and the new tracks on this one gave them an advantage as far as MAS, i think njt could make some bucks to supplement any passenger revenue.

- A

Uh, personal or anecdotal experience is not how $90m is released for a gov't project...

Tadman wrote:Uh, personal or anecdotal experience is not how $90m is released for a gov't project...

Oh i know, i'm just putting in my 2¢. I am not in charge of how the money in NJ is spent (nor do i want to be), i just know it would benefit people in NJ, NY and PA, possibly enough to justify its existence.

- A

Tadman wrote:Uh, personal or anecdotal experience is not how $90m is released for a gov't project...

$90m was the price tag over 3 years ago...

TREnecNYP wrote:You know, they need to do this project all ready. People will use it enough for it to be worthwhile. Worry about the "rest" of the trip into PA later on.

- A

I'm not sure if this or if West Trenton would benefit the fewest numbers of riders. Personally, I think they should restore service on the segment of the ROW NJT still owns (thru Glen Gardner and Hampton). High Bridge is a silly and arbitrary place to end service.

That's AFTER MOM and the Northern Branch are done first.

Port Jervis wrote:

TREnecNYP wrote:You know, they need to do this project all ready. People will use it enough for it to be worthwhile. Worry about the "rest" of the trip into PA later on.

- A

I'm not sure if this or if West Trenton would benefit the fewest numbers of riders. Personally, I think they should restore service on the segment of the ROW NJT still owns (thru Glen Gardner and Hampton). High Bridge is a silly and arbitrary place to end service.

That's AFTER MOM and the Northern Branch are done first.

Eh I could stand ending at Hampton. If they were to ever pursue reviving the High Bridge Branch (near close to impossible), would make a good terminus off of Route 31. But yeah I agree on the arbitrary place. Its a pain to get to and parking ain't the best.

I caught the weinstein chat(part 1) around the 10 min mark..there was a question about restoring service to P-Burg. Apparently the Del river authority has money to extend the line..as reported in newspapers(that was the question in the question) and the full question was about when will njt return to the area.
He claimed that they need to evaluate ridership numbers and operating costs. What a bunch of BS!

Didn't a lehigh valley study just come out with this information earlier this year??
I'm sorry if the line would be rebuilt with other funds(he claimed that is the cheapest part of the project) why wouldn't you accept it?
The the operting costs...why not extend trains that go to high bridge(no new equipment is needed this way) like they did with the montclair bay st service? its not like high bridge gets hourly service. With some rearranging of the schedules to adjust the 15 min or whatever it is to P-Burg it should be a no brainer!

I caught the weinstein chat(part 1) around the 10 min mark..there was a question about restoring service to P-Burg. Apparently the Del river authority has money to extend the line..as reported in newspapers(that was the question in the question) and the full question was about when will njt return to the area.
He claimed that they need to evaluate ridership numbers and operating costs. What a bunch of BS!

Didn't a lehigh valley study just come out with this information earlier this year??
I'm sorry if the line would be rebuilt with other funds(he claimed that is the cheapest part of the project) why wouldn't you accept it?
And for the operting costs...why not extend trains that go to high bridge(no new equipment is needed this way) like they did with the montclair bay st service? its not like high bridge gets hourly service. With some rearranging of the schedules to adjust the 15 min or whatever it is to P-Burg it should be a no brainer!

northjerseybuff wrote:...He claimed that they need to evaluate ridership numbers and operating costs. What a bunch of BS!

...
And for the operting costs...why not extend trains that go to high bridge(no new equipment is needed this way) like they did with the montclair bay st service? its not like high bridge gets hourly service. With some rearranging of the schedules to adjust the 15 min or whatever it is to P-Burg it should be a no brainer!

Unfortunately, it's not that easy. There are fuel costs, labor costs, track maintenance costs, equipment wear and tear costs, and facility maintenance costs that have to be considered. It is in no way a "no brainer". NJT has to look at all of its costs these days - with state tax revenues and passenger receipts down (which is pretty much the case across the industry) any addition of service adds to an already large operating deficit. It's going to be a struggle for many passenger rail properties just to stay where they are, let alone adding service. Most are cutting service, if they haven't already done so.

There would be a need for more equipment, more than likely, or else maybe not as many trains could lay over in the MMC all day or get parked in Raritan so early at the end of the night, as it takes about an hour for equipment to go to High Bridge and X back to raritan. So its about an hour from Rartian to Raritan. High Bridge is only about 14 miles from Raritan (MP52) What would P-burg's MP be?

However, with all the various cars sitting at the MMC rusting to the rails, the newly ordered 100 MORE MLs, and the in limbo Comet 3s, equipment should not be an issue, same with locos, with the dual modes coming online within the next two years, some Geeps and PLs will be "freed up" and more than likely some Geeps actually retired, there should be no issues/major costs with equipment acquisition, but some costs for upgrading/rebuilding/fixing existing equipment would be incurred.

However, we cannot forget that NJT has cut some of the relatively new High Bridge trains that were added after teh siding was put in service....getting existing service back to decent levels should be a priority before adding new service...If High Bridge trains were bursting out at teh seams, it would be even more benefical for P-burg service.......but instead they have been cut