Old freight ops - questions about classification yards

No, Doug, it does not predate my time, but it may as well have.
I walked the branch in 1958 to get physical characteristics and Vanderveer team yard was there.
Of course, in those days I had no camera with me and if I did, I would only have been interested in taking a shot of a steam locomotive pounding rail on the line. Since there were no steam engines operating at the time and it didn't occur to me to take pix of buildings, I have no picture of the old Victorian style freight house that stood in the yard.
That building looked like it could have been there since the Bay Ridge connection was built back in the 1800s. (I didn't ask, but the freight agent inside looked like he could have been there that long, too)
Next time I went down there, in service about 1963, the building and yard were gone.
These were Goodfellow days and his idea was "If it's old, tear it down"

Thanks, JJ. That kinda makes sense time-wise since my building dates to about mid-60's vintage.

BTW, sorry I didn't get more of a chance to chat with you at Member's Day. I was able to move 629 and 1602 into the barns at the end of the day, which was about all the handle-time I got...with the exception of doing one run with 1227 down the line (my 'ol gal).

Hi BMT:

Check out my book "The Long Island Rail Road: 1925-1975."

In it is a photo of the old sign for the Vanderveer Park Freight Yard and Team Tracks.

After passenger service was ended in 1924, the Vanderveer Park depot was left standing to become the freight depot for the yard. All the other depots were razed.

It was standing as late as 1954 when the photo of the above mentioned sign was taken.

Dave Keller

Also, www.trainsarefun.com is indeed the terrific website of my friend and co-author, Steve Lynch.

My website is listed below. It was designed and is maintained for me, an almost computer-illiterate in those matters entirely by my friend Steve. If not for him, my website would not be there today.

Dave Keller

Here is some feedback from another friend, retired engineer Mark Smith:


Hi Dave,
Try to answer some of your question. In my time Yard A classified trains for numerous switch jobs in the Long Island City area and freight for East of Jamaica was made up for haulers to be transfered to Holban Yard where it was again classified for eastbound freights, Freight was also made up in Yard A for transfer to Fresh Pond for New Haven interchange some local swithing jobs in that area. This all started with freight from the float bridges in Long Island City which received cars from many railroads in the area. In other words New York harbor, in itself, was like a huge classification yard. Amazed that this is all gone. Worked many days at the float bridges in L.I.City. These cars were made up and sent by the feeder job to the hump at the east end of Yard A and were classified as above. The Hump at 8th street classified westbound cars, generally empties, in tracks according to the home roads of the cars to be loaded on floats.

I am not familiar with any large freight yard West of Jamaica. Before my time. I remember a team yard in Richmond Hill and Johnson Ave yard behind Hall tower with leads to the Dunton Shops.

As to Penn. Station and Sunnyside.

What I believe came about was that the Long Island Rail Road had talked of tunneling into Manhattan but did not have the funds, but did have the rights to do so as it had the waterfront property on the East River. I think the Pennsy, the New Haven and Long Island formed the Long Island Connecting Railroad to build the Hell Gate bridge and the tunnels. CHECK UP ON THIS. L.I.R.R. evidently did not have the funds. As to Sunnyside it must have aquired the property and built the yard in the same time period. With the loop it was a smart move as Penn Station did, and does, not have much layup room. Too bad the same thing was not done in Jersey for the Long Island. Reverse moves in Penn Station tied up tracks that could be used quicker. Many times it was hard to get to the other end of the train in the rush hour as passengers were trying to get off the train.

As to whether a yard was in yard “A” area at that time I do not know. Maybe there was one and Sunnyside took over some of it. We will have to research that.

Mark Smith

The original question by JOHNNY .F mentions a freight yard west of the old Jamaica Sta.
This was before the current station was built in 1913.
Let’s remember, the old station was somewhere around Union Hall Street and I don’t believe there is anyone around who would remember any of this.
Mark Smith mentions the freight yard at Johnson Ave by Dunton Shop.
In 1954 I was just out of high school and my first job was with Ideal Toy, on Jamaica Ave, in Hollis.
I was a truck driver’s helper.
One hot July day we boarded our truck, loaded by the platform crew at Ideal, and headed for the LIRR yard at Van Wyck and 94th Ave (aka Johnson Ave or Jamaica freight as I later learned) The driver backed into the freight house platform at a point where Dunton Shop would stand three years later and immediately took a reclining position, leaning against an upright roof support while I emptied the truckload of cartons of toys and loaded them into the waiting boxcar.
I swore on that day, I never wanted to see another boxcar as long as I lived.
Little did I know.
When I went to work for the LIRR,(1957) Dunton Shop had replaced Jamaica Freight except for one track adjacent to the driveway where Krug bakery took bags of flour, a nearby Cadillac dealer took auto parts and the JA-1 stored their hack at the end of their busy day.
A strike at Krug’s put them out of business. The Cadillac dealer apparently found another way to get their parts (anyone know anything about that?) and the JA-1 went the way of all yard jobs.

Wow! That's alot of information, JJ. Many of us are still waiting for you to do that definitive tome on the history of LIRR freight service . (Just kidding as I know you're got something in the works anyhow).

Dave K: yes, I saw the photo in your book of Vanderveer Park Station (sometimes just referred to as just Vanderveer). I appreciate that shot very much because it is different than the more 'common photo' of Vanderveer showing two men digging in front of what -- I believe -- was the old passenger station. I bought that one from Ron Ziel a few years ago. Your shot is one I've never seen before, showing the signing at the yard. I even noticed that the brownstone houses in the background are still there today.

Hi BMT:

I'm very familiar with the shot you purchased from Ziel. It is from an original print that once was in the Queensborough Public Library in Jamaica and from which people over the years have obtained copy negatives. I am one of them.

The men are digging due to the pending grade elimination of the branch.

That little brick depot, BTW, was razed during that time and replaced with a wooden structure with freight office built in.

I have a shot of this 2nd depot taken trackside in 1909, as well as a more current shot taken the same day as the sign (1954), from the elevated road looking down towards the building. By then, of course, it was strictly used for freight and a longer freight portion had been added to the structure sometime after the abandonment of passsenger service in 1924.

If interested, feel free to contact me off-forum at [email protected]

Dave Keller

P.S. JJ: I'd LOVE to see you put out a book about your freight memories, perhaps something along the lines of what Richie Harrison did some years back. I'd be glad to provide you photographic illustrations of anything pertinent if you get to that stage! Dave

maybe i missed it... where is (was) vanderveer?

badneighbor...here's a condensed geographical description for you:

Vanderveer (or Vanderveer Park) is the name of a section of the Flatlands area that starts approx. around Flatbush Avenue and continues southeast of the tracks to about KingsHighway. Beyond there, you get an area called Rugby (used to be a passenger station on the Bay Ridge by that name) which then borders on the Canarsie section. The neighborhood is residential -- almost suburban -- compared to the rest of Brooklyn. There are a few blocks of industrial facilities, but they are without exception located (where else) adjacent to the Bay Ridge line.

after i asked, i searched it in Mapquest, and that was where they dropped me. only no RR details obviously... ran off the Atlantic Branch then?

JJ Earl:

Did Queens tower always control the Hollis lead, even when it was freight yard? Was there even such a thing when it was a freight yard? Would crews have to ask for permission? Did you remember when an engine broke free out of that side of the yard and made its way all the way down the Garden-Mitchell secondary into a cut of boxcars?

Freightguy writes:
Did Queens tower always control the Hollis lead, even when it was freight yard?
Until about 1961, Hollis lead was no more than a switching lead with a bumping block on the east end. This lead would hold a sixty car train of 40' box cars.
Hollis tower, on the east end of Hollis station platform, north side, controlled crossovers from the yard if the incoming train was longer.
These crossovers were located at the bridge over Farmer’s Blvd.
A switchtender received a call from the yardmaster that a train was coming to him and where to lay the train up.
He would also advise him of the length of the train.
A long train would be lined toward the main line crossovers after notifying the tower.
Permission was always needed to occupy the lead because of these crossovers.
When Hollis tower was abolished, the switch on the east end was installed, with signals and derail, and was called Hollis interlocking,, controlled by Queens.
With the increasing use of 50’ and longer cars, the signal and switch on the east end would usually have to be lined to accommodate a sixty car train.

Here's a view from "Hollis" tower, showing two of the crossovers: one in line with the last car and one in front of the westbound G5s on the express track. The distant one connects the westbound local track with the westbound express track. The one in front of the train connects to the eastbound express track. There were probably two more crossovers connecting the eastbound express track to the eastbound local track and then the local eastbound track with the yard:

The bridge abutment can just be made out behind the last car.

Dave Keller

Nice picture.
And let's take note in the lower left hand corner of the picture at all of the pipes, indicating that this interlocking used "Armstrong" technology.

But of course!

Dave Keller