Northeast Regional 188 - Accident In Philadelphia

Thoughts and prayers to the living, the deceased, the rescuers, and the families. Words can't even begin to describe that Amfleet torn to shreds.

I'm not seeing the point of arguing over European vs. American crash standards on this thread, at this time. Maybe in the General Passenger Rail discussion forum?

mtuandrew wrote:Thoughts and prayers to the living, the deceased, the rescuers, and the families. Words can't even begin to describe that Amfleet torn to shreds.

Still trying to figure out why that Amfleet car ended the way it did. I am sure the NTSB are wandering the same thing.

JackRussell wrote:

ChemiosMurphy wrote:AP is reporting that analysis of the surveillance video indicates the train was traveling at 107 mph, pretty much exactly what the earlier tweet stated.

Yes it's not an NTSB report, but it's about as good as proof as your going to get as to what happened. Now to figure out if it's engineer or hardware error.

Are there no alerts in the cab when one exceeds the limit? I had thought that they have had systems in place so that the loco "knows" what the speed limit is - I thought I saw pictures from the cab of an AEM7 that shows the current speed limit and the signal aspect.

Then again, this is one of the new locomotives, and that introduces all sorts of other variables into the mix.

You guys are not understating how the systems work correctly so allow me to shine some light on things. ACSES is the only system that enforces track speed limits, CAB SIGNLAS DO NOT! The area where the accident happened is only governed by cab signals and not ACSES so nothing was physically forcing the engineer to comply with the speed restriction on the curve. The only time track speed limits are displayed and enforced is in ACSES equipped territory which is currently being worked on from NYP south. The ACS, AEM-7, and Acela all have the same ADU's so the engine has nothing to do with anything here unless it was a mechanical failure with the brakes or something.

Edit: Older ADU but put perfect example referencing what the original poster was asking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_C ... loseup.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

acelaphillies wrote:I'm not seeing the point of arguing over European vs. American crash standards on this thread, at this time. Maybe in the General Passenger Rail discussion forum? Passenger rail cars are built to have more strength to fight compression. I'd have a hard time believing that any long piece of equipment that is struck with a focused force in the center will not bend.

gprimr1 and I could watch such a thread in General Discussion: Passenger Rail, or perhaps Col. Perkowski could look after one in General Discussion: Locomotives and Equipment. Not here, just as it wasn't appropriate to discuss oil car safety in the Lac-Megantic thread in the wake of that disaster.

Slow down folks. Not even 24 hours after the event... we are still in data-gathering mode. There will be plenty of time for analysis and conclusions later.

8th Notch wrote:

JackRussell wrote:

ChemiosMurphy wrote:AP is reporting that analysis of the surveillance video indicates the train was traveling at 107 mph, pretty much exactly what the earlier tweet stated.

Yes it's not an NTSB report, but it's about as good as proof as your going to get as to what happened. Now to figure out if it's engineer or hardware error.

Are there no alerts in the cab when one exceeds the limit? I had thought that they have had systems in place so that the loco "knows" what the speed limit is - I thought I saw pictures from the cab of an AEM7 that shows the current speed limit and the signal aspect.

Then again, this is one of the new locomotives, and that introduces all sorts of other variables into the mix.

You guys are not understating how the systems work correctly so allow me to shine some light on things. ACSES is the only system that enforces track speed limits, CAB SIGNLAS DO NOT! The area where the accident happened is only governed by cab signals and not ACSES so nothing was physically forcing the engineer to comply with the speed restriction on the curve.

8th Notch, thanks for this clarification.

For a reference, here is the area in question: https://youtu.be/JZy8W_DTag4?t=29m25s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The video was filmed from the opposite direction that the 188 was traveling, but you get the idea. The video should skip to 29:25.

I am still am in awe at the destruction. My thoughts and prayers continue to be with all of those involved.

8th Notch wrote:The area where the accident happened is only governed by cab signals and not ACSES so nothing was physically forcing the engineer to comply with the speed restriction on the curve.

And this may well end up being the crux of the matter ...

The spanish crash happened on a curve without active protection; the MN crash happened on a curve without active protection ... and if things go the way I think most here are thinking they're going to go, might well be the same here.

mtuandrew wrote: gprimr1 and I could watch such a thread in General Discussion: Passenger Rail, or perhaps Col. Perkowski could look after one in General Discussion: Locomotives and Equipment. Not here, just as it wasn't appropriate to discuss oil car safety in the Lac-Megantic thread in the wake of that disaster.

Exactly

R36 Combine Coach wrote:In an eerie coincidence, #94 was going 108 at the time of impact at Chase.

Actually 75 after throwing it into emergency.....

scopelliti wrote:Slow down folks. Not even 24 hours after the event... we are still in data-gathering mode. There will be plenty of time for analysis and conclusions later.

"we" - are you part of the investigation? NTSB, the police, the railroad, all have to carefully examine each piece of the puzzle with an open mind, and not jump to conclusions. Those of us on an internet forum however, are not influencing the conclusions those experts are reaching. Speculation, clearly identified as such, should be permitted.

Mod Note:

Please everybody take a step back. Let's remember not to speculate so much. If you want to analyze the news, please post links to what you're analyzing.

Please also do not bring up US vs. European crash standards right now, we're focusing on breaking news in this thread.

Flame wars and nasty comments will result in a lock on the thread and/or vacation time for instigators.

Northbound Vermonter just passed behind my condo in Holyoke, MA at exactly 5pm, an hour or so late, but I wasn't sure I'd be seeing it at all. The train originates in Washington DC, so does it take a separate route that would take it around the crash site?
Peace,
Jonathan

whatelyrailfan wrote:Northbound Vermonter just passed behind my condo in Holyoke, MA at exactly 5pm, an hour or so late, but I wasn't sure I'd be seeing it at all. The train originates in Washington DC, so does it take a separate route that would take it around the crash site?
Peace,
Jonathan

No. Most likely this is short-turning at NYP.

whatelyrailfan wrote:Northbound Vermonter just passed behind my condo in Holyoke, MA at exactly 5pm, an hour or so late, but I wasn't sure I'd be seeing it at all. The train originates in Washington DC, so does it take a separate route that would take it around the crash site?
Peace,
Jonathan

No detour route exists. Perhaps it left from NYC today, but maybe they had to scrounge up some equipment. JS