North Carolina NCDOT-Amtrak Piedmont Service

What's surprising about all this is that it didn't happen sooner. Given that demand for the trains has gone up, they could have brought it in a few years ago before completing all the track work. That might have been a better use of funds, given the large amount of $$$ spent on (until now) relatively few trains.

trainhq wrote:What's surprising about all this is that it didn't happen sooner. Given that demand for the trains has gone up, they could have brought it in a few years ago before completing all the track work. That might have been a better use of funds, given the large amount of $$$ spent on (until now) relatively few trains.

The additional frequency couldn't have happened without the track work. The track improvements increased capacity which, prior to the improvements, was too low to handle more than four daily passenger trains without interfering with freight traffic.

In addition, when the remaining track work is finished, the speed limit for passenger trains will be 79 MPH all the way from Raleigh to Charlotte. This will make train travel between Raleigh and Charlotte time competitive with car travel between these two cities.

In short, the money spent on track improvements has been well worth it.

I take it this will share trainsets with the piedmont service , so that only one new trainset is required ?
I think Amtrak should reward NC with a crew base for the crescent in Greensboro or Charlotte , and one for the silver star in Raleigh . That should be the message to the states , pay for more services , and we will base as amny jobs as we can in your state .

David Benton wrote:I take it this will share trainsets with the piedmont service , so that only one new trainset is required ?
I think Amtrak should reward NC with a crew base for the crescent in Greensboro or Charlotte , and one for the silver star in Raleigh . That should be the message to the states , pay for more services , and we will base as many jobs as we can in your state .

Amtrak is political enough without making even the most basic operating decisions for political reasons. crew bases should go where it makes the most sense for the crew and efficient operation of the train.

well it would make operational sense to have crew bases in the places mentioned . but why not reward states for coming up with money , businesses would do the same with thir customers . i.e try to buy anything they could off thier customers .

David Benton wrote:well it would make operational sense to have crew bases in the places mentioned . but why not reward states for coming up with money , businesses would do the same with thir customers . i.e try to buy anything they could off thier customers .

If the states' are selling something that is useful for Amtrak's operation, such as GE locos from Erie, Pa, then so be it. Businesses primarily try to offer a product with value to their customers. perhaps Amtrak should concentrate on offering the best possible product at the best possible price to states that invest money in infrastructure. Perhaps they could beging speeding up the trains through VA so that Carolina is better connected to the NEC...improve the ridiculous strip speeds on the Pennsyvanian or fix up King St Station in seattle. things that might be rewards, but also useful to its service,

The last time I attended an NC Train Hosts briefing, Alan Paul of NCDOT reported on the Asheville train plans. The DOT has bought the land in Asheville for the station (actually in Biltmore Forest) and all of the other stations are renovated and ready.

The holdup is NS. It seems that the last figure we were told was the up-grades were now up to about $157M and the NS wanted the NCDOT to pay all that money up front for the siding and signalling upgrades. DOT feels that:

1. Its cash flow can't take a hit like that at one time and still make other improvements around the state, and
2. That NS can't spend all of that money in one year on the project anyway. Spreading tha payments and work out over three to four years was more like what the NCDOT would like to do and could afford.

Since this is at an impass at this time, they have concentrated on more sidings and double tracking the Greensboro to High Point leg.

Asheville remains the #1 off-system destination that Amtrak reports that they get requests for.

CarterB wrote:The April '02 NCDOT study estimated $101M to upgrade the Salisbury-Asheville NS line to 79mph. (Phase I)

"The initial study scope was revised to increase the passenger train speeds to the maximum conventional top speed of 80 miles per hour where practical, and to increase the number of passenger trains to two per day per direction. This action was taken to develop an estimate for the minimum travel time and to facilitate transfers to the state-sponsored Piedmont (Amtrak trains 73 and 74) and Carolinian (Amtrak trains 79 and 80) passenger trains. The department initially requested operating schedules of no more than 3 hours and 45 minutes; Norfolk Southern responded with a scheduled run time of 3 hours and 15 minutes."
NCDOT April 2002
1. Study of Passenger Train Service Between Salisbury and Asheville prepared for Norfolk Southern Corporation and the North Carolina Department of Transportation, The Woodside Consulting Group, Inc., February 2002

From then on, according to NCDOT website...Phases II thru V are "postponed"

Moderator's Note: NJDOT edited to read NCDOT. If this is not what you meant, please re-edit back. 6-5-08 426PMCDT

David Benton wrote:I take it this will share trainsets with the piedmont service , so that only one new trainset is required ?
I think Amtrak should reward NC with a crew base for the crescent in Greensboro or Charlotte , and one for the silver star in Raleigh . That should be the message to the states , pay for more services , and we will base as amny jobs as we can in your state .

1. One additional train set needed- the Piedmont set will leave RGH at 7 AM , arrive CLT at 10 :15, and return to RGH at Noon. The second set will leave RGH at Noon, arrive CLT at 3:15, and return to RGH at 5PM. The Carolinain will make up the third train serving, as it does now, as the morning train to RGH (and on to NY) in the AM and acting as the 5 PM train back from RGH to CLT (if its close to O/T from the north - another issue)

2. Amtrak already operates a T&E crew base in RGH for both #79/80 and #91/92. It operates a crew base in CLT for #73/74, and also for #19/20. RGH is also a crew base for on-board personal for #79/80.

Crew basing is not political, but operations controlled as someone here already said. Amtrak does buy its brake shoes from a company in Laurenburg NC, a several million dollar contract each year.

tarheelman wrote:

trainhq wrote:What's surprising about all this is that it didn't happen sooner. Given that demand for the trains has gone up, they could have brought it in a few years ago before completing all the track work. That might have been a better use of funds, given the large amount of $$$ spent on (until now) relatively few trains.

The additional frequency couldn't have happened without the track work. The track improvements increased capacity which, prior to the improvements, was too low to handle more than four daily passenger trains without interfering with freight traffic.

In addition, when the remaining track work is finished, the speed limit for passenger trains will be 79 MPH all the way from Raleigh to Charlotte. This will make train travel between Raleigh and Charlotte time competitive with car travel between these two cities.

In short, the money spent on track improvements has been well worth it.

Tarheel man is right- the sidings and espacially the doubletracking from GRO to HPT is important. The Carolinian and the Piedmont are already scheduled to pass in the HPT station, or a mile or so south- if one is even a few minutes off, they get stabbed waiting to enter the single track section waiting on the other. Throw in a few NS freights in the mid-day and you can see the problems back up quickly.

matthewsaggie wrote: 1. One additional train set needed- the Piedmont set will leave RGH at 7 AM , arrive CLT at 10 :15, and return to RGH at Noon. The second set will leave RGH at Noon, arrive CLT at 3:15, and return to RGH at 5PM. The Carolinain will make up the third train serving, as it does now, as the morning train to RGH (and on to NY) in the AM and acting as the 5 PM train back from RGH to CLT (if its close to O/T from the north - another issue)

It's too bad that they don't seem interested in adding a third round trip using the two trainsets that will be in service. You could have a train leaving Charlotte at 6AM and one leaving Raleigh at 7pm without too much trouble. I realize that would put the extra frequencies close to the Carolinian, but it seems to me that one of the lessons from the success of the Capitols and the Downeaster is the benefit of squeezing as much use out of your rolling stock as you can consistent with maintaining the schedules.

what happnened to the new Piedmont service that was supposed to start? last i heard it was supposed to start at the end of May....

any updates?

I'm sure that others can fill in the details, but the Carolina Association for Passenger Trains meeting minutes from Feb 28 suggest that startup has been delayed until September or October.

North Carolina, like a lot of other states, is facing a budget shortfall. Consequently, I wouldn't be surprised to see the additional Piedmont service postponed until July 2010 (at the earliest).

I'm still surprised that they didn't get around to this sooner. I've always thought that the way things have been done in N.C. was a little too weighted towards stations and track and not enough towards trains. Don't get me wrong; the station and track work was needed to make the system a viable transportation option. Nonetheless, I believe that trains should have been added concurrently along with the station and track work. That way, with more ridership, the system would have built a broader base of support to pay for the upgrades, as well as established itself as a more useable all-day option. Now, they're finally trying to add another train after close to 15 years since the last one. That's too long a wait; the opportunity to really build a very successful Downeaster-style service was missed.

has anyone take the Piedmont between charlotte and raleigh before. i am taking it on july 18th from charlotte to raleigh. does the train usually leave and arrive on schedule