New NICTD Schedule

Haven't seen any comments here on the pending Nov. 22 weekend schedule change. I like the idea of the morning westbound express trip. It'll be interesting to see what kind of ridership it gets. I'm sure some folks will gripe about the elimination of weekend fares, but . . . . .

There are some comments in the existing thread ...
http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 73&t=60155

If we trust NICTD running less trains to South Bend at better times will be an improvement of service, not a reduction of service. Less trains but better times. I like the new schedule. Plenty of trains going to Chicago (including the express) and the gem added of a late night return train. It will save driving to Michigan City for a late return or cutting the day short to catch the last outbound train.

From the nostalgia front: Only five more scheduled passenger train meets between South Bend and Michigan City. Two this weekend, two next weekend and the final meet at Birchim being on November 21st. After that, the only scheduled meets east of Michigan City will be at South Bend Airport.

It has been my guess that they wanted to be at least able to run the new cars on the weekends. Since weekend trains are usually short, the new cars would give a boost in capacity without adding any costs of extra crew or more cars. It just seemed like too big of a coincidence that once the trains were delivered a new schedule was creating limiting some trips to/from South Bend.

The schedule does not really affect me when coming back to Chicago from my parents. I am more upset over the raise in weekend fares, not because I think it is really unfair but because raising fares, especially weekend fares, seems to be counter intuitive during a recession.

Sorry, but the new cars won't be heading east of Michigan City anytime soon until the Phase III catenary upgrade is completed, and that's prolly not gonna happen for at least another year or so. Since the new cars only have one pantograph per car, the railroad doesn't want to risk a dewirement on the old catenary and leaving passengers stranded in such a rural territory between MC and SB.

They could use the new cars on the Michigan City to Chicago and back weekend runs but they really don't need to. They have enough old cars to handle the needs (and they can run the whole line if needed and have train lengths vary if needed throughout the day).

As far as catenary east of Michigan City ... this year (2009) is the first of a three year project to replace the catenary between Gary and Michigan City. The next two years will be spent completing "Phase II". East of Michigan City won't be touched until at least 2012. But there will be other improvements on that end of the line. Whether or not "Phase III" starts in 2012 is not a given. A lot can happen in the next couple of years.

ravenswood wrote:I am more upset over the raise in weekend fares, not because I think it is really unfair but because raising fares, especially weekend fares, seems to be counter intuitive during a recession.

The "increase" is just ending a discount for rides to and from Chicago on the weekends ... a time where most are riding the train for recreation and not work. If they have the money to go play in Chicago why not pay full fare on the train?

NICTD needs to try to make money. Would you rather see all fares raised so they could keep a weekend fare? Or how about both (the way Metra is doing it ... raising all single ticket fares, the penalty for buying a ticket on the train AND the cost of their weekend pass?

The new cars won't be used east of Michigan City. That is my entire point. In order to use the new cars on weekends, the schedule needed to be changed so that some trains end at Michigan City. There are plenty of old cars for weekend service, that is true, but if you can run fewer of the new cars with fewer crew and carry just as many people, it makes sense to run the new cars as opposed to the old cars. There was a rather lengthy discussion about the capacity difference between the 8 car single level train and a 6 car bi-level in previous threads, there was not much difference. This is another reason why the new cars are not run during peak periods. However, off peak, a four car bi-level train carries quite a bit more than a four car single level train with no extra crew.

I question the logic of raising fares on weekends, or canceling a reduction in fare (there really is no difference), during a recession. Perhaps they have done the math and know that it won't hurt but it is counter intuitive. Weekends are discretionary and have the highest elasticity of demand. You say that if people can afford to play in Chicago, then let them pay a full fare. What I am saying is I do not think that people can afford to play in Chicago. The entire point of the reduction was to woo more shoppers into taking the South Shore and boosting ridership. If the reduction in passengers because of higher prices off sets the more money per ticket, then the increase makes the railroad worse off. All I am saying is that during a recession this is more likely to be the case.

Do I wish to see large scale increases like those on Metra, no. I actually use Metra more often. I also understand that as public agencies they need to balance their books every year and the only way for the boards to do that is to raise fares or reduce service but in the end it may cost them more.

ravenswood wrote:The new cars won't be used east of Michigan City. That is my entire point. In order to use the new cars on weekends, the schedule needed to be changed so that some trains end at Michigan City.

Effective Sunday, November 22nd, seven trains will make their runs only between Chicago and Michigan City - four westbound and three eastbound. This isn't being done to allow gallery cars to run weekends. Not running the trains all the way to South Bend prevents meets on that single track segment. (There will be two meets a day east of Michigan City ... both scheduled to take place at the airport.)

There are plenty of old cars for weekend service, that is true, but if you can run fewer of the new cars with fewer crew and carry just as many people, it makes sense to run the new cars as opposed to the old cars. There was a rather lengthy discussion about the capacity difference between the 8 car single level train and a 6 car bi-level in previous threads, there was not much difference.

You can put at least 100 more people on an eight car single level train than a six car two level train. That is at least 15% more.

This is another reason why the new cars are not run during peak periods. However, off peak, a four car bi-level train carries quite a bit more than a four car single level train with no extra crew.

The new cars ARE being used for peak trains every weekday. The first and last peak train westbound (102 and 212) and 211 and 215 eastbound.

The entire point of the reduction was to woo more shoppers into taking the South Shore and boosting ridership.

My point still stands. If they afford to shop in Chicago they can afford to pay the $0.75 to $1.75 more ($1.50 to $3.50 round trip).
We're not talking a huge increase here. The South Shore fare is still competitive with driving (with tolls and parking).

The new schedule helps compensate for some of the benefits of driving ... trains that run when the most passengers want to travel and where passengers want to go. No more "leave Chicago by 8:00pm if you want to get home" for South Bend passengers. Now the last trains to South Bend will run at 9:15p and 11:15p.

Any early indication as to how the new weekend schedule is working??

ohioriverrailway wrote:Any early indication as to how the new weekend schedule is working??

From what I've been told, on-time performance is up dramatically, but I haven't seen the aggregate numbers just yet. Ridership is down system- and region-wide, so it's difficult to assess how popular the new service is from a passenger satisfaction standpoint.

By the way - just to confirm what's already been said here - the new weekend schedule had nothing to do with the new cars. Service can easily be covered by the existing fleet, and is.

more than competetive with driving and road tolls
the skyway bridge alone is $6 if you drive a round trip.. if you drive from south bend you have that+ the barrier toll+ the distance tolled section of tollway.

superbad wrote:more than competetive with driving and road tolls
the skyway bridge alone is $6 if you drive a round trip.. if you drive from south bend you have that+ the barrier toll+ the distance tolled section of tollway.

Tolls from South Bend West: $1.55/$2.50 to Portage Barrier, $0.50/$1.25 Westpoint, $3.00 Skyway for a four wheel vehicle (IZoom vs Cash rates). A round trip would be $10.10 on the IZoom or $13.50 Cash. Parking at Millenium Park (Randolph St) is $19 for up to eight hours ($22 for up to 12, $24 for up to 24 hours). East Monroe is one block east and is $14 for up to 12 hours. One carload travels and parks for $29.10/$32.50. The trip is 92.5 miles one way by road - at 20 mpg and $2.99 it would be $27.65 for gas (round trip) or $56.75.

One adult travels the South Shore Line from South Bend to Randolph St for $10.75 ... $21.50 round trip. Two people $43.00. Children would be $10.70 round trip each. The mythical family of four would cost $64.40. Competitive?

One is not required to take the Indiana Toll Road. SR2 and US20 are four lane mostly divided to Michigan City the I-94 runs right into the heart of Chicago. The distance is a little further but the tolls can be avoided. Downtown parking is the worst part of the equation. I really miss the cheap meters near Randolph St and the free pre-911 parking near the station (now posted no parking - and yet cars still park there).

Drive to East Chicago Station and you can cut 20 miles off the driving each way ($6 round trip), $7 off of the round trip tolls and $19 for parking. $32 off the driving cost to add $4.75 each way per adult on NICTD. The family of four would travel for $28.40 round trip. (Competitive.)

Two or less would be cheaper on the South Shore Line ... hopefully the train meets your schedule. The new schedule is certainly better for late evening returns.

justalurker66 wrote: Tolls from South Bend West: $1.55/$2.50 to Portage Barrier, $0.50/$1.25 Westpoint, $3.00 Skyway for a four wheel vehicle (IZoom vs Cash rates). A round trip would be $10.10 on the IZoom or $13.50 Cash. Parking at Millenium Park (Randolph St) is $19 for up to eight hours ($22 for up to 12, $24 for up to 24 hours). East Monroe is one block east and is $14 for up to 12 hours. One carload travels and parks for $29.10/$32.50. The trip is 92.5 miles one way by road - at 20 mpg and $2.99 it would be $27.65 for gas (round trip) or $56.75.

I'm thinking that instead of 20mpg @ $2.99 you need to use the federal mileage reimbursement figure, which includes things such as insurance, depreciation, etc. That makes the travel component closer to $46 + tolls + parking, which then makes the South Shore trip more attractive.

At the "business miles" rate that would be $101.20. My employer would pay me $68.08. $46 would be the "medical or moving" rate. I was thinking of a recreational trip ... talking about a family of four in a weekend schedule thread. The calculation is obviously different for commuters (generally single travelers making the trip nearly every day).

justalurker66 wrote: The trip is 92.5 miles one way by road - at 20 mpg and $2.99 it would be $27.65 for gas (round trip) or $56.75.

Most cars get far better than 20 MPG highway. Also $2.99 is for too high, the rest stop at Portage on the tollway is $2.36 right now for 87.