New NICTD Schedule

spatcher wrote:

justalurker66 wrote: The trip is 92.5 miles one way by road - at 20 mpg and $2.99 it would be $27.65 for gas (round trip) or $56.75.

Most cars get far better than 20 MPG highway. Also $2.99 is for too high, the rest stop at Portage on the tollway is $2.36 right now for 87.

Most new cars get better than 20 MPG highway. Older cars are still on our roads, and get worse than or equal to 20 MPG. It probably averages out to ~20 MPG for a typical car.

M&Eman wrote:

spatcher wrote:

justalurker66 wrote: The trip is 92.5 miles one way by road - at 20 mpg and $2.99 it would be $27.65 for gas (round trip) or $56.75.

Most cars get far better than 20 MPG highway. Also $2.99 is for too high, the rest stop at Portage on the tollway is $2.36 right now for 87.

Most new cars get better than 20 MPG highway. Older cars are still on our roads, and get worse than or equal to 20 MPG. It probably averages out to ~20 MPG for a typical car.

http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/misc ... -and-2004/

In 1980 the average was 23.1 MPG, in 2004 the average was up to 24.7mpg. So the average car over the last 29 years gets better than 20 mpg. Again as I said, most cars get far better than 20 mpg highway.

I went with a low number (Cash for Clunker's level MPG) and a high gas price (unless you buy in Illinois) to present a worse than average case ... closer to my car. (I could buy a more fuel efficient car but gas is cheaper than the payments it would take to own something more efficient that still had cargo space.)

There are other, non-monetary costs to driving as well such as, well,....driving. It can be a hassle, it certainly takes all your attention, and it's often stressful, especially driving in the city. If NICTD continues to improve the service vis a vis on time performance, reliability, cleanliness, convenience, and so forth, it will still be an all around better deal to take the train.

There is a certain hassle factor in needing to be at a train station at a specific time or have to wait hours for the next train. Miss the 6:22p and you'll be waiting for the 9:15pm. Miss the 9:15pm and you'll be waiting for the 11:15pm. At least with the new schedule the 11:15pm goes all the way to South Bend ... on the old schedule South Bend passengers had to leave town by 8:00pm.

There is a cost to convenience and a benefit. For those going where the trains run when the trains run the South Shore Line is a good option. But service can only be improved within a narrow set of parameters. Trains run on schedule, not on demand. Trains run on a fixed route to fixed stations, not to the passenger's final destination (which must be reached via other transportation - perhaps at additional cost).

Running on time should be a given for any modern professional railroad ... the railroad needs to respect the schedule demands that it places on their passengers. Passengers are required to keep a schedule - to be at the station on time (at least four minutes early). The railroad's part of that bargain is to be there on time ... not requiring passengers to wait even 10 or 20 minutes after the scheduled time, let alone more, and to get them to their destination on time. I'm surprised that the ridership was as high as it was on the weekends with the on time performance. It may take a while and some marketing to get the "on time" reputation back. Horror stories always live longer than success stories.

There is only so much NICTD can do ... it is good to see the railroad doing what they can. The late night returns are the biggest improvement on the schedule. Hopefully those trains will be well used.

I am surprised that Hudson Lake isn't marked as a "discharge only" stop on 511 and 513. It would save NICTD money if those trains could be annulled east of Michigan City on nights when there are no Hudson Lake or South Bend bound passengers. As it stands, NICTD would have to run empty to at least Hudson Lake just in case someone wanted to go to South Bend at 11:23p or 1:23a. Of course, I hope the nights 511 or 513 go unused east of Michigan City are rare. Perhaps the "discharge only" can be added in February when the schedules are reprinted (Metra price increase affecting Hegewisch)?

justalurker66 wrote:I am surprised that Hudson Lake isn't marked as a "discharge only" stop on 511 and 513. It would save NICTD money if those trains could be annulled east of Michigan City on nights when there are no Hudson Lake or South Bend bound passengers. As it stands, NICTD would have to run empty to at least Hudson Lake just in case someone wanted to go to South Bend at 11:23p or 1:23a. Of course, I hope the nights 511 or 513 go unused east of Michigan City are rare. Perhaps the "discharge only" can be added in February when the schedules are reprinted (Metra price increase affecting Hegewisch)?

What if there's a passenger who may want to ride from Michigan City to South Bend, or Hudson Lake, or any combination of those three? I have never seen any railroad have a "may be annulled sometimes, at short notice" train in its schedule.

More trouble than it's worth, for the pittance it would actually save in operating costs. Labor costs are by far the largest cost component in the overall cost of running a train. By the labor agreement, crews are going to be paid at least 8 hours, even if they work less. If the run is by design an overtime assignment, and you say at the last minute, "naaaa...just park the train and go home; you're not getting that overtime today", you're going to wind up with a nice union grievance, which the union will probably win.

So, this is a non-starter. It might make sense to cut the last train of the night back to Michigan City with an actual schedule change during the non-peak travel season in the winter, and NICTD discussed that when the new weekend schedules were proposed to the Board. Might still happen, but you'll *never* see a "might not run tonight" train on the South Shore Line.

jb9152 wrote:What if there's a passenger who may want to ride from Michigan City to South Bend, or Hudson Lake, or any combination of those three?

If someone is waiting in Michigan City to go to Hudson Lake or South Bend the train isn't annulled. It also finishes the run if there are already passengers on board before Michigan City who want to go to Hudson Lake or South Bend. The "discharge only" marking for Hudson Lake is the key. On those (hopefully) rare nights when everyone is off of the train at or before Michigan City the train *must* run to Hudson Lake just in case there is a (likely very rare) passenger wanting to ge to South Bend. If there is no one in Hudson Lake and no one on the train the last 13 miles are moot. No passengers are accepted in South Bend for the "extra" move to Michigan City.

jb9152 wrote:I have never seen any railroad have a "may be annulled sometimes, at short notice" train in its schedule.

Just being innovative. That marking would not appear in a public timetable ... just the "discharge only" marking for Hudson Lake. Give the employees the rest of the night off (with pay to make the unions happy) instead of making a 65 mile non-passenger run.

If there is no (or close to no) cost savings then it isn't an issue. An empty round trip to South Bend is sure to happen some time ... hopefully very rarely.

justalurker66 wrote:If there is no (or close to no) cost savings then it isn't an issue. An empty round trip to South Bend is sure to happen some time ... hopefully very rarely.

Understood. But since the labor costs are overwhelmingly the largest cost component, if you simply "pay the crew anyway" (and I can imagine how that could be spun if a hostile newspaper reporter got 'hold of that), there really is not much in the way of cost savings.

justalurker66 wrote:I am surprised that Hudson Lake isn't marked as a "discharge only" stop on 511 and 513.

The new September 5th, 2010 schedules ( http://www.nictd.com/pdf/Schedules.pdf ) have Hudson Lake marked as "discharge only".
It also appears that way in the February 1st and June 1st printed schedules (I have not seen the September 5th, 2010 printed schedule yet).