new hours of service standards for RAILROAD personnel?

Heard some scuttlebutt that the fra is going to change the hours of service standard for train personnel in 2011?
Does anyone have information on this subject?
Thanks

no major changes other than those people working 12 hours a day without a break.
max amount of hours a month wil be curtailed, but changes are still not finalized ask your union for details.

thanks

One of the significant changes you will see with the new rules is the requirement for a 45 minute "rest" between trains. There will also have to be a "quiet room" in major terminals where crews can rest during their swing. How the 45 minute intervals will be worked out is to be finalized. For example your job has the requisite 45 minute interval between trains. But one of your trains are late which would then allow you to only have 37 minutes between trains. Will you still have to work that next train? All this is still up in the air as they say. Or if the crew sleeps on the train, like when the Conductor and Brakeman split up the job, i.e., one shows up later in the job then the other goes home or when they take turns with one working the train while the other sleeps, will this sleep be calculated into the "rest time" requirements. Questions have come up at meetings that if the Conductor is asleep the entire trip, would this sleep time can figure into his required rest time allowing him to have a shorter turn-around between trains than other crew members who cannot sleep during a train trip, such as the Engineer.

sleep on a train or withing a certain distance of track can not be counted as credible rest as per FRA rules.
the rules for Commuter railroads are still under development and will be nation wide, If no agreement can be made with all Commuter railroads the current HOS law will take effect.
Again no deal has been negotiated between railroads and FRA but current standards will not be much deviated from.
including that no rest can be used for HOS unless a minimum of 4 hour at a designated facility.
There probably will be a rule where an employee can not work seven days a week and must have one 24 hour period off in a 7 day cycle.

I work in the nuclear power industry and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission recently introduced the Fatigue Rule which essentially imposes the following limits:

16 hrs in a 24 hr period
26 hrs in a 48 hr period
72 hrs in a 7 day period

Essentially guarantees at least one day off in a 7 day period if your work day is 12 hrs. There are all sorts of exceptions and waivers and certain groups have even more stringent standards, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a roll out of similar fatigue management rules at the federal level in other industries.

railroads have different rules than Nuclear powerplants so that is incomparable.

current rules : http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/wais ... 28_09.html

Datenail, in regards to your comments let's use a yard job or a protect as an example. There are several times where they are on standby, in other words not performing service. I don't see how your theory would prove to have any kind of creditability in those scenarios, since the scope of your analysis is strictly on passenger. And if I am not mistaken, the hours of service would cover all kinds of service and not just passenger. Just to let you know, at least here on MNCR where if a crew does not have equipment to run, they will deadhead on another train back to the terminal they are supposed to be at. With your theory, both C&E will not be performing any kind of service. But as Dutch said, the interim release of service has to be at a terminal and not on the train as you prescribed. Those are all issues that will be discussed with the carrier and the union.

Steamboat, the 45min rest between trains will only occur on Passenger trains. In a yard, you are not carrying passengers and the risk to passengers is nill. Therefore, the provisions I stated that will most definately be the rule, would not apply. On a passenger protect, once you operate a passenger train, you will not be allowed to operate another upon reaching a terminal, for 45min. Obviously, this will require a total overhaul procedurally on effected railroads. Deadhead time will not be counted as "rest". You would deadhead to your starting point as you described, then begin work. Once you operate a passenger train, the 45min rule will apply. If you operate a passenger train, then deadhead to another terminal to operate another, you would need an uninterupted 45min before operating the next passenger train.

Your statement that refutes my so-called theory, which is not a theory but a fact, because it only discusses passenger trains, is offbase. The new regulations affect passenger train operation. So what else would there be to discuss? Currently, freight operations are under new FRA and HOS regulations. The changes that the thread was started for, is in regards to how it affects passenger/commuter operations, not freight. Please read more carefully before you criticize another persons input.

Datenail wrote: Or if the crew sleeps on the train, like when the Conductor and Brakeman split up the job, i.e., one shows up later in the job then the other goes home or when they take turns with one working the train while the other sleeps, will this sleep be calculated into the "rest time" requirements. Questions have come up at meetings that if the Conductor is asleep the entire trip, would this sleep time can figure into his required rest time allowing him to have a shorter turn-around between trains than other crew members who cannot sleep during a train trip, such as the Engineer.

Why does it always have to be a craft war with you? Yes sometimes Conductors sleep, but you and I both know that is against the rules.
What is also against the rules is people not being on the job.
So your comment about it being discussed at meetings is BS.
Cant you ever post just one thing that is objective?
That would be like a Conductor saying, well since the Engineer sometimes nap while I run the train, that was discussed at meetings.
That would also be total BS, since it is also against the rules, but it does happen.
Could you please try and be a bit more objective, instead of making every post a Conductor vs Engineer thing? Thank you.

Datenail wrote:One of the significant changes you will see with the new rules is the requirement for a 45 minute "rest" between trains. There will also have to be a "quiet room" in major terminals where crews can rest during their swing.

So the FRA is imposing this rule nationally, on all passenger railroads? And it applies to any one-way train trip, no matter how short?

For example, it makes sense to require a 45-minute break after a 4-hour Amtrak run from Boston to New York. But after a 1-hour run from Hempstead to Penn Station, a 45-minute break would be totally ridiculous. And what about something very short like a Valley Stream-West Hempstead shuttle?

I hope I'm misunderstanding something, because this would be a huge waste of money for every commuter railroad in the U.S.

again there is no new rules, only if all commuter agencies get to an agreement will there be a modified set of rules for non- long distance passenger operations.
this would not be just for LIRR or MNCR or NJT, its all or nothing, if no agreement is reached the new overall (freight) HOS rules will be applied.
Again only rest valid for this is 4 hours at designated rest facilities, not on trains stopped or moving, uness you hear anything official via your union or company the current rules as posted before will be in effect.
any rumors will only get people confused, and have no, i repeat no official bearing on FRA HOS rules.
here is a site trying to keep up with all changes: http://www.ble781.org/laws/49_USC_Chapter_211.pdf

Datenail, you mentioned about train service personnel slacking off and whether that would count as rest. The example I mentioned of which both C&E were deadheading back to a terminal provided there was an event where equipment never ran making it equal circumstances for both C&E. But you just confirmed in your last post that if there was a revision of the rule, rest as stated will not begin until the person(s) are at a terminal, ruling out deadheading as rest.

The new provisions to the hours of service is simply to enhance safety. That should also extend to non-passenger ranks as catastrophic events can occur with crews not fully rested are making shop moves or switching out the yard. Cell phone bans was a step in the right direction after the Metro Link accident. But this mandatory rest, how will you be positive that this act is carried out? The people who burn the candle at both ends will continue to do so.

I just shared the nuclear fatigure rule hours for comparison, figured maybe there'd be something similar from the feds in the pipeline...

Anything about Hours of Service for rocket scientists?