MOM Rail Service

Unless you want to make it a completely private operation, not subject to all the Federal rules and the whole bureaucracy

Not even separating the railroad from the general railway network would free any passenger rail operation from Federal rules. Those rules bind private and public, and for the most part represent why there is no fully private operation of passenger rail for the purpose of public transportation anywhere in this country now. And where would it run? especially since running one-seat rides to at least the NYC metro area is the goal.

amtrakowitz wrote: Not even separating the railroad from the general railway network would free any passenger rail operation from Federal rules.

What if they extended this from its current terminus in Jackson, NJ to connect with the NJCL at, say, Matawan?

Matt Johnson wrote:

amtrakowitz wrote: Not even separating the railroad from the general railway network would free any passenger rail operation from Federal rules.

What if they extended this from its current terminus in Jackson, NJ to connect with the NJCL at, say, Matawan?

Can they afford the insurance...?

Matt Johnson wrote:

amtrakowitz wrote: Not even separating the railroad from the general railway network would free any passenger rail operation from Federal rules.

What if they extended this from its current terminus in Jackson, NJ to connect with the NJCL at, say, Matawan?

The first and last car is the quiet commute car, please keep your screams to a whisper

keyboardkat wrote:

hsr_fan wrote: 80 mph is, I feel , fine for commuter trains when the alternative is to crawl along at 10 mph in traffic jams on parallel roads.

Sorry for the off topic post, but 80 mph would feel great for NJT trains. Does anyone have any idea what the average speed is for the NJT trains. I take the BCL and it feels that its top speed is more like 30-40 mph, even for the express trains. Granted this line has frequent stops but the trains do not seem to even get close to 80 mph. Even express trains that skip a number of stops.

Forget about the MOM rail line probably forever. We can't add more capacity to the lower part of the state when we cancel a new tunnel that would have doubled capacity and the original tunnel reached capacity in 2006 at peak time.

matawanaberdeen wrote:Forget about the MOM rail line probably forever. We can't add more capacity to the lower part of the state when we cancel a new tunnel that will double capacity and the original tunnel reached capacity in 2006 at peak time.

Negativity is an insult Think positive, we can always make extra capacity (and start finding other terminals to focus on)

Roadgeek Adam wrote:

matawanaberdeen wrote:Forget about the MOM rail line probably forever. We can't add more capacity to the lower part of the state when we cancel a new tunnel that will double capacity and the original tunnel reached capacity in 2006 at peak time.

Negativity is an insult Think positive, we can always make extra capacity (and start finding other terminals to focus on)

I wish cause this rail line is very much needed.

matawanaberdeen wrote:Forget about the MOM rail line probably forever. We can't add more capacity to the lower part of the state when we cancel a new tunnel that would have doubled capacity and the original tunnel reached capacity in 2006 at peak time.

Do MOM trains have to go to NY in order to be successful?

no

Do all trains need to go to NY to be successful? No. Look at the 2300s trains. They go to Hoboken, and have no shortage of riders.

I'm not saying that we could send all trains to Hoboken (ignoring the fact that it is also at capacity), but there is nothing wrong with sending them there.

Look at the Cutoff. Unless they were to extend MidTOWN Direct trains to Andover, they would have to go to Hoboken. ARC was cancelled, but the Cutoff hasn't been.

If they could get MOM rolling, they wouldn't necessarily have to go to NYP.

Of course the trains don't have to go to NY Penn for them to have ridership, would Hoboken have as much ridership as NY Penn. No, Mid-town Direct services have proven the one seat ride concept of such trains are an overwhelming success.

Now here's the problem with MOM, West Trenton, and even Lackawanna cut-off trains without additional tunnel capacity. At the first chance folks will transfer to NEC/Mid-town direct trains to Manhattan. Thus overwhelming already packed trains, I've ridden NJCL trains bound for Hoboken, and it would be no exageration when I estimate 75-85% of the riders transferred at Newark for PATH or NEC trains to Manhattan instead of riding all the way to Hoboken. Adding more trains to Hoboken is doable and would be a cost effective alternative in the short term to the new Hudson tunnels, the major problem is how to convince those riders to stay on the train all the way to Hoboken instead of getting off at Newark.

The NEC/NJCL trains to Manhattan are many times standing room only before they even reach Newark Penn, throw into that situation passengers connecting from RVL trains and the local traffic boarding at Newark to NY Penn and the situation becomes intolerable. And then there's the passengers boarding at Secaucus!.. I don't see how adding West Trenton or MOM to the mix can be doable unless those trains skip all stops on the NEC, including Newark Penn, during ruch hour on the way to Hoboken. However if you do that your cutting off the traffic heading for downtown Newark.

It's a tough situation, the Hudson tunnels should have been built a long time ago. Now, I don't know where transit in this State goes.

When taking the overcrowding into consideration it's more feasible for NJ to look at routes such as West Shore, NYSW for expansion as those would not add to the crowding on NEC/NJCL/Mid-town direct trains if they skipped Secaucus during rush hour. Even if those trains did stop at Secaucus, it would only be intolerable for the short segment into Manhattan.

I've heard many times that Hoboken is at capacity. But I've never told exactly what it is about it that makes it overcrowded. Is it the tunnels? The yards? The station itself?

What about improving things at Hoboken so we can send trains there instead of focusing on NYP? It's called NEW JERSEY Transit. Yes, NYC is massive and important, but we don't need every train to go there.

What's next, extending HBLR so it can go into NYC as well?

Tom V wrote:Of course the trains don't have to go to NY Penn for them to have ridership, would Hoboken have as much ridership as NY Penn. No, Mid-town Direct services have proven the one seat ride concept of such trains are an overwhelming success.

Now here's the problem with MOM, West Trenton, and even Lackawanna cut-off trains without additional tunnel capacity. At the first chance folks will transfer to NEC/Mid-town direct trains to Manhattan. Thus overwhelming already packed trains, I've ridden NJCL trains bound for Hoboken, and it would be no exageration when I estimate 75-85% of the riders transferred at Newark for PATH or NEC trains to Manhattan instead of riding all the way to Hoboken. Adding more trains to Hoboken is doable and would be a cost effective alternative in the short term to the new Hudson tunnels, the major problem is how to convince those riders to stay on the train all the way to Hoboken instead of getting off at Newark.

The NEC/NJCL trains to Manhattan are many times standing room only before they even reach Newark Penn, throw into that situation passengers connecting from RVL trains and the local traffic boarding at Newark to NY Penn and the situation becomes intolerable. And then there's the passengers boarding at Secaucus!.. I don't see how adding West Trenton or MOM to the mix can be doable unless those trains skip all stops on the NEC, including Newark Penn, during ruch hour on the way to Hoboken. However if you do that your cutting off the traffic heading for downtown Newark.

It's a tough situation, the Hudson tunnels should have been built a long time ago. Now, I don't know where transit in this State goes.

When taking the overcrowding into consideration it's more feasible for NJ to look at routes such as West Shore, NYSW for expansion as those would not add to the crowding on NEC/NJCL/Mid-town direct trains if they skipped Secaucus during rush hour. Even if those trains did stop at Secaucus, it would only be intolerable for the short segment into Manhattan.

How much capacity would it take at Hoboken if we sent DMU service by the NYSW, Northern Branch, West Shore? I would oppose going by Secaucus, if it even meant two minutes or less to get off the train. Trains don't come that fast through Secaucus to go to NY Penn.

ns3010 wrote:I've heard many times that Hoboken is at capacity. But I've never told exactly what it is about it that makes it overcrowded. Is it the tunnels? The yards? The station itself?

What about improving things at Hoboken so we can send trains there instead of focusing on NYP? It's called NEW JERSEY Transit. Yes, NYC is massive and important, but we don't need every train to go there.

What's next, extending HBLR so it can go into NYC as well?

Actaully, yes. They're trying to send it into Staten Island. Although it's not Midtown (which seems to me NJT's focus) it's still NYC.