• Model Railroad Operations

  • Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.
Discussion related to everything about model railroading, from layout design and planning, to reviews of related model tools and equipment. Discussion includes O, S, HO, N and Z, as well as narrow gauge topics. Also includes discussion of traditional "toy train" and "collector" topics such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marx, and others. Also includes discussion of outdoor garden railways and live steamers.

Moderators: 3rdrail, stilson4283, Otto Vondrak

  by brockwaythemusician
 
I'm in between the planning and building stages of my model railroad and thinking ahead to operations. The premise of my operations is the importance of shortlines to Class I railroads so mainline railroading is actually LESS important in my operations than that of the smaller roads. I have also been a subsrciber of 22 years to Model Railroader Magazine (since the age of 5) so I've done a lot of reading on how other operate their layouts. I have read, understand, and have used switchlsits and car cards on previous models to "portray realism", which has lead to my predicament:

It seems that whether the railroad be freelanced or prototypical, it is impossible to get away from a "utopian" operating scheme. There are always tons of businesses that need rail service, trains are long, yards are full, and operations are always at a "best case scenario". Some model railroaders operate "progressively" and retire equiptment and close business, but beacuse they chose to.

I too plan to "progressively" age my railroad, beginning in 1980 and working towards present day. My railroads centers around a junction with a Class I railroad where a Class II a Class III and a scenic railroad meet with a second Class III railroad spurning off the class II railroad in the middle of the line. The class II also has trackage rights on the Class I's tracks to a seperate industrial location. During that time several of the shortlines changed operators for a variety of reasons, lack of business, lawsuits, poor operations, bankruptcy, etc. This has left me with two choices, either accept the fact that certain lines change ownership (even with he utopian style shipments coming in and out) or find a way to model a lawsuit... the first which seems ridiculous, and the second which seems even more ridiculous.

--- Growing up with board games like Axis and Allies, Risk, and computer games like Civilization reminded me that what actually drives the shipments on railroads is competition: between other railroads, between buses and trucks, right down to the businesses in this country with those overseas. And since the people I will be operating are more "competition minded" than "railroad minded" I feel that that this is the way I should go. Therefore, each railroad will get its own operator which is competing for business against the others. I am working on computer generated consists that will use formulas to generate traffic to each railroad based on real data. Operators will not only be in charge of their deliveries and "typical model railroad operations", but also be in charge of keeping their line profitable, everything from keeping business by on time, quality shimpments to the amount of fuel used in delivering their goods.

I'd like to get your thoughts on my thoughts before I continue. This will make a difference in the way I set up my benchwork and track if this pans out. Once I get some feedback, I'll throw some more of my ideas out to you. Thanks.
  by 3rdrail
 
The only thing that I picked up on which is different than your average model railway layout is that you want a substantial business model operation here. I know nothing about business, but I would suggest getting certain ideas by reading a few business oriented magazines that are out there. I did have a rather humorous (but believeable) idea of a law suit over the use of the word "railroad", claiming it to be intellectual property. A scenario of a saddened painter painting out "Railroad" on a car and replacing it with "on metal tracks" with the legal notice next to him (used to catch any spills) would be a hoot ! Good luck !
  by umtrr-author
 
I seem to dimly recall a computer program of some sort that not only handled the "usual" operations oriented tasks like switch lists and freight car assignments, but also recorded the "revenue" from these movements. That might be interesting to you.

This could very well faulty memory, so please include the grain of salt with my above statement.

Meanwhile, I think you have a point on the "utopian" operation, but it works the other way as well-- a large customer on a real railroad might get dozens of cars a day, which would quickly clog up the typical model railroad.

Even a layout as large as the New England, Berkshire and Western (RPI's club layout) uses "selective compression" for its industries. A customer that got one car at a time on the prototype (the NEB&W is based on the D&H, Rutland and NYC) still gets one car. There's a proportional scale from there to simulate more traffic; it might be something like 10 cars if the real industry got 100.
  by brockwaythemusician
 
A computer program that did something along those lines would be great. I've been trying to work out something similar with formulas in a spreadsheet. I also took an HTML course where I learned how to make some "complex calculators" so if the program isn't out there, I can try something on my own.

Although I plan on starting in "1980", I plan on progressing 1 year every 6 months, so in 2030, my model railroad will be at 2012. I guess when working with a model, there no way to completely get away from the so called "modelers liscence". My design would have 2 operating sessions a month, each representing 1 months traffic. Since the business on the lines I'm dealing with don't usually handle a large volume of cars, I should be able to make it work.

To give you a better idea, my line is based on Utica NY. In 1980 Conrail and Amtrak ran the "Waterlevel Route" mailine through Utica. I'm including trackage to Rome where the Utica based shortlines also operated, and continue to operate. In 1980, the Adirondack Railroad Corp was running trains north for the Olympics in Lake Placid, the NYSW was operating the former DL&W from Utica to Binghampton after it had been purged by Conrail, while at the same time (NYSW was)operating the D&H and to my understanding put in a higher bid for the assets, but denied a sale by the courts, and The Central NY Railroad was still an operating shortline. By 1981, one of these railroads was already gone, and another by 1983. Aside from telling two operators on my model, "hey it was fun, but there's nothing for you to do anymore", the best thing to do is start "history" at 1980 and let each operator try to keep their line in business. Within 15 years, the Adirondack Centenial Railroad would begin operation, Grifiss Industrial Park would grow from the remains of Grifiss Airforce Base and the Mohawk Adirondack Northern would take over Conrail operations from Utica to Lyon's Falls... keeps things interesting.

Looking into current oerations (on the real thing), the Class I railroads keep up to date fleets of locomotives, but on the smaller railroads, a variety of alco, EMD, and other power can be found: F's E's, RS3's, you name it, still in operation... interesting to calculate just how much money a railroad spends by running an RS3 rather than a GP9. It throws a whole new level of strategy into model railroading when traffic is down on the line and you need to decide whether to retire "old reliable" (which as railfans, most of us would not want to do) over a newer more efficient engine or when traffic is up whether to "buy" or "lease" a C420 over a GP9 based on price and fuel economy.

(On a side note, is there anywhere on the web I could find the MPG a locomotive gets both hauling cars and running light?)
  by Desertdweller
 
That is quite an ambitious project!

I'm not really sure what the object of your efforts is. To have your railroads eliminate each other? To have a winner?

Anyway, I suggest that you take a close look at the industry. Like other distributive industries, there are two basic strategies: wholesale and retail.

Consider first the Class Ones: These guys are, as much as they can be, wholesale only. Serve big customers with dedicated trains. Grain elevators, coal-fired power plants, mines, TOFC/COFC. Discourage small shippers and single-car customers. Avoid "loose car" railroading as much as possible. Close small yards, take up industrial sidings (lest they be used), consolidate freight agencies and maintenance bases.

Then the Class Twos: The retail railroads. Regional carriers who serve the businesses considered less than optimal by the class ones. Operate on branches and secondary main lines spun off by Class Ones in limited geographical areas. Handle some wholesale business to be handed to Class Ones at interchange points. Serve as originating/terminating carrier for these moves. Do loose car railroading to small customers abandoned by Class Ones.
These railroads are effectively large industries in their relationship to Class Ones. The Class One delivers a block of cars and pulls a block of cars from the Class Two interchange.

Class Threes: The "Mom and Pop" retailers. Interchange with Class Ones and Class Twos. Specialize in loose car railroading and a few unit train customers. If they are customer-owned and only handle cars for that customer, may not even be a common carrier.

Tourist Lines: Specialist boutique railroads. May or may not be common-carrier, but under FRA rules because they carry passengers.

If your proposed model railroad is driven by a business-based computer program, you may well find some or all of your railroads going out of business or being eaten by some other railroad you don't even model. What if the board of directors of one of your railroads decides they can make a better return on investment by pulling earnings from the railroad and investing in real estate or manufacturing? What if one of your railroads has a long, crippling strike, and its customers use other transportation options and find to prefer them? What if your big, on-line mine runs out of ore? What if the EPA shuts down your Class Three's main customer?

Our model railroads are, for most of us, a source of enjoyment and escape. I have spent my professional career dealing with the situations described above, trying to make Class Two and Class Three railroads viable. I have visited many potential customers who were literally shocked to be solicited for business by a railroad, after years of Class Ones telling them they didn't want their business. A lot of these customers had rail sidings that no one could remember the last time they were used. In many cases, everyone who had ever used rail service had retired or died.

I have a model railroad I use a lot. But with no desire to relive the struggle of the industry, I chose to model the cloud coockoo land of passenger operations in the early 1960's, before the cancellation of mail contracts in 1967 sounded the final death knell of the passenger train network.

Good luck with your project! It is not for me to tell you how to enjoy your hobby.

Les
  by brockwaythemusician
 
Point well taken. I don't want to run my layout as a "competition" between operators, more of an individual challenge to not only fulfill duties on a switchlist but to do so and keep their line profitable. Each of the "what if's" is a unique challenge that effect real life operations and I guess I'd like to keep some element of that in my layout. I recently finished reading a book on the O&W and how in its final years after it's coal lines out of PA dried up, the management tried several things to keep their line open and that is part of what got me going in this direction with my model... that maybe my class II and III's could try to keep the businesses insead of losing them. Short of makinging events random and "gamelike" like a chance card in Monopoly, the economic route was the the best I could think of. This is why I threw this idea out here, to get others opions and take on things.
  by Desertdweller
 
Game theory has been an important part of model railroading (for some of us) for a long time. Pioneer model railroader Frank Ellison likened a model railroad to a stage, and the trains as actors. In that case, we have prima donnas (the California Zephyr, in my case) and understudies (the unnamed mail and accommodation trains).

I had a model railroad based on a fictional Class Two for 28 years. I don't have it any more, but while I did, I operated it on a car card forwarding system. I've found if your hobby is too much like your work, it loses its escape value.

I rather enjoy the "utopian" aspect of model railroad operations. My trains are reasonable replicas of the real trains, but, after all, it is my railroad. For instance, I operate on a regular basis in my early-sixties world a train that was actually discontinued in 1959. Some of my trains run healthier consists than they would have by the mid-sixties. AT&SF train 190 is not always combined with C&S train 27. D&RGW train 1 carries a sleeper and operates through to Grand Junction, and carries Colorado Springs cars off CB&Q train 1. I do not get hung up on color schemes: if I like an earlier color scheme, I'll run it. I run one UP passenger train in the two-tone gray, and I run D&RGW PA's in three color schemes.

Passenger loadings at Stapleton International Airport have exceeded those at Denver Union Station since 1958, but on my model railroad, it matters not a whit. "Let them eat airline food!" (Actually, back then, airline food was a heck of a lot better than it is today, but never close to dining car standards.)

I do have an operating system, of sorts. After a lot of research, I've complied 20 train sets that called at Denver Union Station. I've put together a daily sequence of operation for each train, using actual arrival and departure times as much as possible. That makes 20 arrivals and 20 departures. The first arrives at 0445.
Arrivals are concentrated in the early morning, allowing a full business day for passengers in the city. Departures are concentrated in the early evenings. Trains that leave town are removed from a fiddle track. Trains that arrive are placed on the fiddle track. The challenge comes from trains that arrive, lay over for a few hours, and depart. They have to be turned (on a reverse loop) and parked on an empty station track until departure. Power needs to be cut off and run to its respective engine terminal for servicing. The Cal Zephyr arrives on one railroad and leaves on another, so must both turn and change power.

Adding to the fun is the fact that while most trains arrive from the north (east) and depart that direction, some also arrive from the south (the joint line). I also have an express facility on its own stub track, and a mail handling facility on another stub track. So the opportunity is there for switching head-end cars.

With a sequence operation, I can stop at any point and continue later where I left off.

Yes, I have only one station on my railroad, but if it is big enough, that's all you need.

Les
  by trainguy2024
 
I have seen many ways that some model railroaders operate their layout. The best that I have seen so far is a simple switch list or wheel report. It is what the local freight railroads in my area use. You can make a nice switch list in Excel. Try it out!
  by Railjunkie
 
Some freinds and I tried the ship it program didnt like it after a few operating sessions all the cars ended up on one side of the railroad, the program woulnt allow us to return cars back to the other side. Never could figure out why.

Try this program, EasyModelrailroadinventory.com. Not only can you keep track of all your equipment,tools ect it will also allow you to set up shipping and print waybills and switch lists.